Hey all,

So I’m looking to take an active step here to understand better some things that my straight/white/cis/middle-aged male brain has had a tough time wrapping itself around, particularly in the gender identity front.

I’m working from the understanding of physical sex as the bio-bits and the expressed identity as being separate things, so that part is easy enough.

What’s confusing to me though is like this. If we take gender as being an expression of your persona, a set of traits that define one as male, female, or some combination of both then what function does a title/pronoun serve? To assume that some things are masculine or feminine traits seems to put unneeded rigidity to things.

We’ve had men or women who enjoy things traditionally associated with the other gender for as long as there have been people I expect. If that’s the case then what purpose does the need for a gender title serve?

I’ll admit personally questioning some things like fairness in cis/trans integrated sports, but that’s outside what I’m asking here. Some things like bathroom laws are just society needing to get over itself in thinking our personal parts are all that special.

Certainly not trying to stir up any fights, just trying to get some input from people that have a different life experience than myself. Is it really as simple as a preferred title?

Edit: Just wanted to take a second to thank all the people here who took the time to write some truly extensive thoughts and explanations, even getting into some full on citation-laden studies into neurology that’ll give me plenty to digest. You all have shown a great deal of patience with me updating some thinking from the bio/social teachings of 20+ years back. 🙂

  • Monkey With A Shell@lemmy.socdojo.comOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    9 months ago

    Probably about as close to a direct understanding as I might get. Kind of puts me to a philosophical thought, if society didn’t have any kind of gender norms somehow, would that disquiet still exist?

    • Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      9 months ago

      So, I’m a trans woman.

      Lets say I was raised on an island of men. I had no idea of the concept of women, and all of the people I’d ever seen were male.

      In this world, clearly, my self perception would be different. I wouldn’t have a crystalised identity, I wouldn’t be able to tell you my gender. What I would have, is a life long discomfort that I could never identity or address. My body would have been wrong, but I couldn’t have told you why. I’d have been different to the men all around me, but I couldn’t have told you how.

      It’s similar to how I processed my trans identity before I had exposure to trans people or and understanding that transition was a thing.

    • -Emma-@fedia.io
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      For some of us yes, and for others no.

      It’s difficult for me to even imagine the complexities of such a world that lacks gender norms. Would there be fewer trans people? Possibly. But in such a world, there would still be trans people like me that feel a strong need for surgery.

      Edit: Forgot to mention HRT, which many of us would still need.

    • apprehentice@lemmy.enchanted.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      9 months ago

      That makes me wonder what personal expression would look like. Clothing might have been developed completely differently if certain garments were made to fit more body types.