I would really appreciate any help! I connected with this guy on a dating app a few months ago and we started texting. It naturally paused while I was traveling during the holidays, and he said update him upon my return. However, I had to deal with a traumatic personal matter and needed time to decompress after the loss. I was still thinking of him though and knew I had to text him. A month later, I apologized and explained everything; he was thankfully understanding.
Eventually, it became several phone calls for 2-3 hours each time (I initiated the 1st one after he said let’s plan a date and I was too drained to jump right into meeting in person). Talking was so natural and calls flew by. Then we soon met for our first date in person, and I know the order of events was perhaps already a disadvantageous road less traveled, but the date didn’t go well. Leading up to the day of, he mentioned feeling nervous and kept asking if I was too, so I tried to make him feel more at ease. I recognize that the guy does not owe the gal paying for her on a date, as assumed by certain gender role stereotypes, but from my experience the majority have at least offered to cover a beverage and it is appreciated. He did not, and threw me off even more by taking my coffee (I ordered first and we ultimately had the same order), leaving me there awkwardly waiting for the next one to be made while he put his cream/sugar in. I felt that was strange and rude right off the bat, even with nerves.
When he mentioned the next spot he wanted to head to after that, we went but it was too crowded and I consider it to be one of my safe havens in general so I started feeling anxious about spending hours with him there especially after the coffee incident. I politely suggested a similar smaller, less crowded venue and he seemed offput, as if I was personally attacking his choice. We did go but he made remarks that alluded it fell short of his expectations. He was also quite different in person, behaving aloof and unfocused which he admitted is his usual demeanor, expressing how emo and dark he can be as well. This was right before Valentine’s Day so I wasn’t surprised when we did no contact until he texted 1.5 months later, apologizing for ghosting me and saying he wasn’t mentally ready for dating and felt really lost. I haven’t replied and it’s been another month.
He seems a bit depressed and I genuinely want nothing but for him to be well. Part of me has wanted to reply but I fear him ignoring it for another month and this continuing to drag out (I take accountability for contributing to that), or worse - ghosting me completely. I don’t see a romantic future with him at this point and want to handle this the right way. Should I reply or leave it be? If reply, how should I phrase it? Was the coffee thing just due to nerves? For 1st dates, thoughts on whether guys should pay and if it’s okay for gal to counter with a different venue? Any other input/advice?
You mention gender role stereotypes but then fall prey to one when you clearly think you should be served first because of your gender. If you don’t believe in equality and would rather stick to ancient and out of date traditions that’s fine but perhaps he is a bit more progressive and you are not well suited to each other.
It’s ok for a woman to pay, it’s ok for a woman to suggest a second venue, it’s ok for a woman to make the first move. It’s not 1950 any more.
Regardless, like others have mentioned, having this much to question after one date isn’t a good sign.
Thanks for your input. Maybe it wasn’t clear in the post: it was a fast food type coffee shop where you order in line and then sit down. The fact that I placed my order first, before he then ordered a coffee identical to mine, makes me wonder why it would be acceptable for him to abruptly grab the first one that was ready on the counter, without even so much as a word or a glance, and walk away to a different counter to do whatever while I was stunned, speechless, and just waiting for the next one. He clearly saw me waiting, didn’t bother to say a word, and showed no remorse afterwards even if he somehow didn’t hear my order from a few inches away (highly unlikely). First impression in person too. I get that there will be people who don’t care about the coffee ordeal, however I wouldn’t even think of doing that to someone else, regardless of gender or any other characteristic - especially on a 1st date. It’s just weird and rude. At the very least, I would confirm what the other ordered (which he already asked before we actually ordered) and freaking let them have a chance to pick it up, as they ordered first. If at a restaurant, the party behind you was served first for the same exact order, wouldn’t you feel at least it’s a little unfair? And in this case, it was your date who intentionally made that happen, not the waiter/waitress? Anyway, I agree with everything else in your comment
“I ordered first and we ultimately had the same order” Read ro me as if OP ordered, he waited a bit and ordered a coffee too, which is why they weren’t served together. But it is entirely possible that I’m reading too much into that sentence
Yes, it’s true and the coffee shop calls out by drink rather than by name, so isn’t it rude that he swooped in to grab mine when he knew we ordered the same exact thing? Please see my comment above for more context
The fact that people are downvoting your comment doesnt speak to the progressiveness of this place at all.
I’m a little new to the downvote part of the platform. How can we see downvotes? When my mouse hovers above the upvote icon, it says 0 Downvotes. Or someone un-did their upvote?
It rectified itself. Nevermind
Any person that describes themself as Emo or Dark on a first date, isn’t ready to be going on dates. Best to give this one some room to grow up a bit more.
I agree, thank you!
Don’t ghost him, message him and explain that you’re not interested and you wish him well.
Was the coffee thing just nerves? Probably not, he seems fairly emotionally immature from your description and has some stuff to deal with before he’s ready to date.
Should anyone be expected to pay for the other? No, unless the other party has suggested a venue which they know is outside of your means. Even if first dates, gendered stereotyped expectations are dumb.
Is it okay for someone to suggest a venue? Yes!
I agree, thank you! This is one of the most helpful comments and covered all questions.
I’m glad I could help, and best of luck!
Thank you, and to you as well!
Life is way too short. Text them. More than “hello” just ask them out again. If it doesn’t happen then who cares.
Also, if he has a problem with a woman picking up the bill, he is a piece of shit.
Doesn’t sound like he has a problem with it
I’ll take free coffee from anyone.
Please see my comment above to clarify what happened with the coffees. Don’t you think that was at least a bit rude of him?
Getting coffee in a line can be awkward. Often times the barista assumes the two orders are together. Not having been there, it’s hard to know for sure. But if they said “anything else?” and you looked at him, that was you agreeing to pay.
I find it’s best, before any date, to say that you only go Dutch treat. (Everyone funds their own way). The expectations are set. No one owes anyone back, and no one can feel like they wasted money if it doesn’t work out.
Later on in the relationship, I personally find that splitting based on financial position is the best way to keep things equal. If I make twice what they do, a fancy restaurant that I suggest might be financially insensitive. If it’s a 75/25 split, that’s more fair to them.
There are more compatible people for you out there, life is too short to waste on someone with whom you have this many issues after only 1 date.
I don’t see a romantic future with him at this point
Then let it be. If you did want to you could likely still save it but if you don’t, then it seems contact has already been cut and re-initiating it lacks a clear reason. I suppose the important question is what is your goal in reaching out?
I see your point. I guess I value having explicit closure on both sides and especially considering his emotional conditions in this case. I don’t want to be the reason he gains more of a dark thought process. I probably care too much and admittedly overthink at times. If we look at ghosting as a concept, I do all that I can not to generally. The main reason I delayed response this recent month is an overwhelming number of commitments to get through after being ill for some time, and it’s not the norm for me at all. I always feel like I should reply even if it isn’t to continue relations. I completely see your point though and know many see it that way too
I feel that, I fully agree that a clean cut is the best way to handle it, but since it’s been so long I honestly would say “what is done is done om this one and I’ll do it differently next time.”
Unless of course he reaches out to you, then of course sever it cleanly since he reopened it. But I wouldn’t reopen it myself just to end it, it’s already functionally ended.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best!
Thank you, all the best to you too!
I can’t advise you on anything that happened on the date itself, those are entirely yours and person-specific.
Assuming that you are not interested in anything with him at all, and just want to properly reject him, I strongly recommend not ghosting him fully, and instead give a kind but firm and clear rejection.
You don’t have to go into detail explaining. Especially after mutually keeping distance for that long, it’s clear that there was no spark between you, and you can just say something along those lines. “Sorry, I didn’t feel the chemistry, and I really feel like we don’t match. But I wish you happiness.”
For those last couple questions you ask… My opinion is that they’re are no rules.
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Guys being expected to pay feels slimy to me, but paying itself can be good, like a gift, especially if you reciprocate and pay for something else another time.
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The gal asking for what would make her happy in terms of which shop to go to… Should be an absolute given. If you feel like you’re not gonna have fun somewhere, recommend the better option, absolutely.
Thank you for one of the more thorough responses addressing my questions. It really helps. One part though that I’m wondering relates to your 1st sentence: what are your thoughts on his behavior at the coffee shop? Do you think that’s strange and rude? I added more context in my comment above as it may not have been clear in the post
Honestly, it sounds to me like he just really wasn’t present in the moment.
I just cannot believe he would intentionally do such a thing, if he was aware of the entire situation, given your previous interactions. I might be projecting, (for I’ve been in such situations, and it was horrible for everyone involved), but I believe he was strongly tuned out somehow. Dissociated, either because of other things in his life at the time, or because of the date itself.
I think, no matter the cause, that’s still a bad sign for a date, he was not in a situation to pay attention to you, which was not a good thing at all.
If you feel some kind of empathy for that, or if you have any degree of interest, you could literally ask him. I think it’s good and proper to ask what was going on, about a time you were hurt, assuming you want further association with someone.
Otherwise, as a rule, I believe other people’s minds are kinda unknowable, and Very unreliable (we make mistakes all the fucking time), so I would not take it personally. I’d be willing to bet, it was not meant to be any kind of slight to you, or any intentional message. He probably just fucked up, and you should probably let it go, and move on.
To be clear, I don’t think there’s a right answer about whether you try to connect with him again or move on. Whichever you honestly feel you want, in your gut, is probably right.
I do think that was likely what happened. And also true that it isn’t good for dating and he might benefit from some more self-work. Thank you!
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Maybe I’m just an old man now, but I feel like you’re overthinking it. If you feel it’s worth another try call him and take the initiative to suggest something. If not, don’t.
Don’t ask strangers what to do when you know what you want inside. My first date with my wife was us with a group of mutual friends at the zoo, then she pretty much decided I belonged to her. So I’m not really one to tell you who should pay or whatever.
Life is too damn short to overthink these things.
If you want to go on another date with him, contact him and say so. If you don’t want to go on another date with him, don’t contact him.
If you cannot tell whether you want to go on another date with him, quit your job and go on a permanent meditation retreat with occasional psychedelic use until you figure that out.
Honestly, it sounds like you’re in the third situation, and that’s a very serious problem, and I am not kidding about the advised strategy. Life is absolutely not worth living unless you are in touch with your own feelings.
It’s so much easier to make decisions when you are in touch with your feelings, and the way you write comes off like a person who doesn’t know how they feel and tries to substitute thinking for feeling in decision-making.
So my advice is take a few years to get in touch with your body and your heart.
Thanks for input. I know there’s always room for self-work as we all can relate but I assure you it’s not to that degree personally. Just for the big picture, I was very hungover when writing this after not going out for a very long time, but didn’t want to postpone it more so it might sound a bit like I’m thinking out loud. Please be kind with me; when it comes to love or lack thereof, it can be a very grey area for all and I really am doing my best to process experiences. I do believe it’s possible to better understand body/mind/heart while balancing a productive career as well.
I prefer love to kindness. I’d rather not see people make the same mistake I did, of trying to think my way through important relationship decisions. I hurt myself and others by trying to strategize about love. It was all because I was totally out of touch with my feelings, had no idea, and couldn’t commit to anything unless there was someone else to put their seal of approval on my decisions.
Again, not kidding. I wish I had shaved my head and become a buddhist monk instead of spending the last two decades the way I did. I had the urge, and it was the right urge, but I didn’t trust it. The only reason I didn’t recommend that for you is I don’t know if you’d be a monk or a nun.
But no, I thought I had to work on my career and make strategic decisions.
If I sound harsh, it’s because I’m trying to scare you. The inability to know whether you want that second date is a serious problem which should, in my opinion, be treated as priority one.
Just my two cents. Yes love is full of danger and potential pitfalls. Without the most basic form of radar being operational, ie your own heart, the probability of a disaster is just too high.
I have to clarify that I was and am resolute about not wanting a second date with him, just wanted some thoughts on the actual responding back part, so that takes care of that. I think there are definitely individuals where that decision would work well but not for me at this time, and I know this is a platform for people to share their two cents that will go both ways.
