Thank you to the voters that said the dbzer0 posters are cool, though someone said something like “I never noticibly noticed any user from that comm” and I feel personally affronted
I noticed you and thought it was weird someone from hexbear made an account on a different instance
Yeah only really have noticed the admin, who continues to show they are an ass
I think i talked to you before cuz i remember riffin on your name
I came over here when /r/piracy moved and at first I was confused by hexbear. Over time I’ve come to embrace the ideas and movement and I appreciate the discussions on here. Sorry if I’ve frustrated any of you over the past year, I’ve really had a shift in perspective coming from a ballot box liberal background.
I’ve been totally uninvolved, but it appears the mods, rather than the users, have been the most inflammatory. We welcome all good-faith users, such as yourself
coming from a ballot box liberal background.
That’s where the vast majority of us came from. Really where else could most of us have come from? East Germany? The Moon?
that’s how I found the chapo sub back in the day
I think I said something vaguely socialist and someone said “go back to chapo” and I was like “what the fuck is a chapo”
wow I guess you found enough wrongthink to ban them, huh?We draw the line at DM harassment of any kind. Calling a moderator a “hypocritical PoS” in DMs for banning them for outright reactionary behavior necessitates a site wide ban.
It would be hypocritical to do otherwise.
So much for the tolerant left
I’m just yanking your chain, fuck them.
They still don’t understand how that’s an issue
that fucking rules. thank you for making my day.
It looks like we won’t be
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
divided by a zero.
That would make you infinite tho.
No. You can’t divide by zero and get infinity. x / 0 = NaN, it can’t be defined, dividing by zero is impossible.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_by_zero
Probs skim a wiki page before trying to correct someone :) conventions are just conventions. All maths is arbitrary (e.g. n^0 being defined as 1 is so nice patterns around power addition and such hold at 0 but “n times n zero times” is sort of a nonsense question if the operation is taken at it’s most naive and direct interpretation)
Also not a number isn’t a mathematical construct, it’s a value computer software returns to handle edge cases in a predictable fashion.
I now vote for defederation due to this pedantic response. Division by zero is undefined under the rational number set which is what pretty much anyone on earth will think of. It does not reach the same value as you take the limit from either side. It’s not a convention it is an axiom. Math is not arbitrary, it must all be proven n^0=1 is not a convention, it is proven in many different ways.
I guess that’s fair, I’m being a bit sloppy. We prove things inside of axioms we accept, and can develop systems consistent with different sets of axioms but there’s not necessarily any reason to choose one set over another. Doesn’t 0^0 come from Euler being like “shut up it works nicer this way” though? or was it Russel?
We can’t prove our axioms, and the rational number set isn’t more true than anything else, it just tends to be more useful in normal arse problems.
I can think of one reason to choose the set of axioms we all learned in grade school:
it just tends to be more useful in normal arse problems.
And anyone who’s cared for a baby would tell you that lullabies are the most useful sort of music but they’re hardly what I want to talk about when music comes up :P
Does everyone have to provide a disclaimer on every comment they ever make regarding math? (Note: This comment refers only to the system of mathematics every single person reading this comment is familiar with. If you make up different rules then those rules will apply instead of the ones I’m talking about.)
I didn’t intend any hostility, the world is just nuanced and really fun. I often see assertions of rules of thumb presented as factual statements without any hint of further complexity existing and it makes me sad as people read that and think the world is simple and makes sense.
It’s much more true to say something like “usually we can’t divide by zero” and that leaves room for someone curious to go “huh!” and scurry off on their own and learn something fascinating.
division is not defined for 0. it can yield multiple values, any value at all, explode to infinity, etc… but even that statement depends on taking a limit because you can’t actually divide by zero. you break basic algebraic laws if you try to include it. it’s such a essential fact of algebra that you only name an element of a ring 0 if it’s the additive identity and always multiplies to zero. when you extend such a set to a field, you define a division operation as multiplication by the multiplicative inverse except for the additive identity because such an operation is never well-defined.
your Wikipedia link is discussing limits. limits are only well-defined when you can prove that every step of the limiting process is well-defined and the overall sequence converges absolutely. if I just write 5/0, there’s no sequence - you can’t say the limit diverges to infinity or resolves to a specific number because there is no limiting sequence to begin with. you need a function like sin(x)/x to produce a limit such that you know for certain that 0/0 in this very particular case is 0 (ie the discontinuity at 0 is removable).
if you’re interested in this, you’re looking for ring theory. a lot of textbooks will give you the basis to prove that division by zero produces inconsistent results for any field - this is why it’s one of the field axioms.
I wasn’t talking about limits. Read the stuff about extended real lines etc. There are some (2 or 3? idk not many) systems where we do define 1/0 as infinity.
I do think your right in the framework of ring theory though, but I haven’t done much of that. It’s a framework for analysing a lot of algebra and the maths we usually do but I don’t think it’s the universal truth of all mathematics which is possible. Am I wrong there?
sure, you can extend the real line but you’re basically defining a new value that behaves a lot like NaN in software. you have to be very careful about the operations because of the strange properties of the new terms introduced. what you get out loses a lot of the basic properties you’re used to with arithmetic - ie afaik it’s neither a field nor a ring. it’s also a really misleading statement to say it’s dividing by zero - you’re changing what division by zero even means. and the infinity you get back isn’t infinity in the usual sense - the supremum of the natural numbers. rather it’s a symbolic infinity.
basically, it’s as much division by zero as -1/12 is the sum of the natural numbers. they’re both true in a very particular sense but only after you change the meaning of all the words in the statement.
said another way, you can make anything you like true by introducing new axioms but those axioms have deep impacts on what’s true in the new system those axioms generate and it’s misleading to say that the ability to introduce those axioms makes an undefined operation sensible in a system that lacks those axioms.
Ok I suppose that’s fair, most people probably are taking division as meaning in the sense it applies in what is it even called, default maths? real analysis or whatever, and while people call the operation division in other systems it’s sort of a homophone for a rather different thing that shares characteristics.
People should still learn about the Riemann sphere though and it’s a sensible operation under that. We do it all the time in quantum shit mwahahahaha.
Also not a number isn’t a mathematical construct
I know that, I was using it in the literal sense. x / 0 = not a number. It isn’t a number. It is not something defined mathematically. I could just as easily have said undefined, N/A, or anything else.
conventions are just conventions. All maths is arbitrary
you cannot take an object and divide it into 0 pieces. The expression is nonsensical to begin with.
Have you considered Wikipedia tho
Maybe learn some algebra before you start being pedantic. You can’t divide by zero and any notation that does is shorthand for something else. There is no way to define 6/0 in the same way as 6/3 and the fact that you need a whole-ass metric space so you can have convergent sequences shows that.
And n0 is not just arbitrary but the definition of an empty sequence of an operation is that it yields the neutral element. The empty sum yields 0, the empty product yields 1 and n0, in the most naive and direct interpretation, Is n multiplied by itself no times, hence an empty product and therefore yields 1 (there is a caveat for 00 but that’s like a whole lecture). Sure that is arbitrary in the sense that any axiomatic system is arbitrary but not in the /0 sense where it keeps changing based on context and no self-consistent axiomatic system is possible where /0 is assigned a value.
a zero is gen X slang for someone totally untubular.
Which for you gen zers out there means one who is totally rizzless
Good, the db0 mod and admin can stay banned while we still can interact with the users.
Glad to hear it. I may have made an ass of myself on here a few times, but a few patient hexbears showed me what I needed to get it. If you defederated, I’d have to make an account and convince the mods I know better now.
Almost everyone here was a cringe liberal at some point in the lives. Most of us (myself included) only found the light around the time of Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn elections.
masterful bitwow so authoritarian that you’d respect a vote smdh redfash tankies
Oh kewl awesome
What was the vote count?
e: from the vote thread it was 117:47 in favor of staying federated. thanks @Antisocial_Socialist@hexbear.net and @the_itsb@hexbear.net!
I believe it was something like 117 to remain federated vs like ~40 to defederate. I would have to recount but it was overwhelmingly in favor of staying federated.
I also agree with the other users here that the funniest and probably most productive option is leaving their admins banned while staying federated and letting them make the next move is the best and funniest option.
peculiar!
The right move
