Vietnam under Chinese rule or Bắc thuộc (北屬, lit. “belonging to the north”) (111 BC–939, 1407–1428) refers to four historical periods when several portions of modern-day Northern Vietnam was under the rule of various Chinese dynasties. Bắc thuộc in Vietnamese historiography is traditionally considered to have started in 111 BC, when the Han dynasty conquered Nanyue (Vietnamese “Nam Việt”) and lasted until 939, when the Ngô dynasty was founded. A fourth, relatively brief, 20-year rule by the Ming dynasty during the 15th century is usually excluded by historians in their discussion of the main, almost continuous, period of Chinese rule from 111 BC to 939 AD.
The four periods of Chinese rule did not correspond to the modern borders of Vietnam, but were mainly limited to the area around the Red River Delta and adjacent areas. During the first three periods of Chinese rule, the pre-Sinitic indigenous culture was centered in the northern part of modern Vietnam, in the alluvial deltas of the Hong, Cả and Mã Rivers.
Elements of Chinese culture such as language, religion, art, and way of life constituted an important component of traditional Vietnamese culture until modernity.
Periods of Chinese rule
First Era of Northern Domination: 111 BC–AD 40
The first period of Bắc thuộc is traditionally considered to have started following the Western Han’s victory in the Han–Nanyue War. It ended with the brief revolt of the Trưng sisters.
Second Era of Northern Domination: AD 43–544
Chinese rule was restored after the Trung sisters’ rebellion. The second period of Chinese rule was ended by the revolt of Lý Bôn, who took advantage of the internal disorder of the waning Liang dynasty. Lý Bôn subsequently founded the Early Lý dynasty, with the official dynastic name “Vạn Xuân” (萬春).
Third Era of Northern Domination: AD 602–905
The Sui dynasty reincorporated Vietnam into China following the Sui–Early Lý War. This period saw the entrenchment of mandarin administration in Vietnam. The third period of Chinese rule concluded following the collapse of the Tang dynasty and the subsequent defeat of the Southern Han armada by Ngô Quyền at the Battle of Bạch Đằng. Ngô Quyền later proclaimed the Ngô dynasty.
Fourth Era of Northern Domination: AD 1407–1428
Vietnam was brought under the control of China following the Ming dynasty’s defeat of the short-lived Hồ dynasty. The fourth period of Chinese rule ended when the Lam Sơn uprising led by Lê Lợi emerged successful. Lê Lợi then reestablished the Đại Việt kingdom (大越) under the new Lê dynasty.
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nuclear guys, tunnel-visioning: oh we’re going to have to bury the nuclear waste and put every language in existence there to warn future people but they might not even speak any of them and may plunder it anyway unknowingly. this speaks to the impermanence of record and the inability to preserve common knowledge. I’m literally so philosophical right now
me, thinking about it for more than five seconds: put picture-to-word association there
I would simply
just put something fundamentally instinctive like hyperexaggerated emotions and skulls. better yet, just literally anything even an infant can interpret as “BAD BAD BAD NO NO NO”
I can’t tell if you’re being serious here, because people think stuff like this, but it’s also very wrong. The value of different symbols change depending on culture. Just putting a skull on something does not necessarily mean it is toxic (In the literal sense) and bad. Sure a line of skulls at traitors gate or the poison chemical symbol have very negative connotations (Ignoring that betraying the British empire is good for a moment), but Santa Muerte is literally a skeleton and also objectively a positive symbol, related to that calaveras aren’t sinister at all, Kali is likewise covered in skull iconography but calling her evil is a fundamental misunderstanding. Even when the skull is meant as a negative symbol, it might not mean death or danger. Baroque and other renaissance and early modern use of skull symbolism in art is often meant to invoke a sort of memento mori message to the beauty and ostentatiousness highlighting the fleeting and pointless nature of beauty even as it revels in it.
A sad face and a skull, even if we are to accept our own interpretations of such symbols could just mean “This is a tomb”.
i’m being needlessly glib but I’m moreso trying to express my annoyance that a lot of discussion around this barely considers images within it. I don’t even mean just symbols, like if we’re carving shit into the walls or painting it on we could get artists to draw/sculpt/carve out harrowing imagery meant to communicate without language. if someone stumbles into an ancient tomb with detailed artwork everywhere in it of peoples faces melting off, I gotta be honest, it is very much a skill issue if they continue.
Again. Kali is a goddess usually depicted with some combination of decapitated human head accessories, weapons, dripping blood, and standing on top of Shiva. You are not meant to be scared off by this.
Mesoamerican skull racks are literal racks of skulls. Potentially hundreds of skulls from people sacrificed to the gods stacked in neat rows. You weren’t meant to look at one of these and say “Welp, I should get the fuck out of Tenochtitlan”
You are assuming not only a contemporary understanding, but a contemporary western european/american understanding. of the imagery. And that’s the problem here. Maybe to a new culture in a thousand years a melting face is a symbol of personal change, maybe going from childhood to adulthood or taking on new responsibilities or a new role in society? I’m not dismissing pictures as tools for conveying meaning here, it’s just not simple when we’re dealing with potential millennia.
fair enough, this is a certified dumb girl take so I don’t mind taking the L here
Look it’s okay though sometimes you gotta have a few dumb girl takes so you can get those smart girl takes <3
15120s child stumbling into the catacombs decorated entirely with Beksiński paintings and Junji Ito drawings:
I should keep going, there is definitely not a great evil down here
Okay, removes from any context, I would for fucking sure check thst out. Especially as a child.
Feels like planning for failure anyway. If we aren’t passing down the knowledge of where we’re keeping nuclear waste, other things have already gone seriously seriously wrong anyway. The rest of the world.may be comparatively radioactive in such a case. If some post collapse guys stumble across some barrels of radioactive waste, I guess they die. I don’t really care about imaginary post apocalypse guy. Let’s just not have an apocalypse.
Just have a bunch of images etched in steel of dudes melting, with graphic facial expressions so you KNOW it’s not a kink thing
nuclear guys when they find out archaeologists are able to interpret cave paintings because they are pictures depicting things
Okay but we get that shit wrong all the time. Mormonism is an entire religion based on just absurdly wrong readings of Egyptian artwork, Egyptian artwork that even has text explainning what it depicts.
It took us sooooo long to figure out hieroglyphs