Today I stumbled across a weird corner of Twitter, where a ton of ostensibly conservative Christian women and men were trying to debate incels and RedPill bros using facts and logic, talking about how they shouldn’t shame single mothers or promote having extramarital affairs as “high value” men, and how a TikTok trad wife was a larp of a real adoring wife–who may just have a career and have been intimate with someone else before them.
The women were also trying to redefine an “alpha” as a man who could control his sexual urges and stay faithful and kind, and were criticizing guys worshipping that kicker guy for his commencement speech, saying that if they wanted a homemaker wife they needed to be bringing in his kind of salary. Hell, all the worst fears of misogynist chuds, like how a woman won’t date you unless you made 6 figures or had a good body, were things these conservative women were unapologetically saying they expected their husband to have, whereas most secular and liberal women I know would never criticize their partner on those grounds.
And then there were the “nice” Christian men who were showing themselves caring for their wives and trying to insist to incels that this was not “beta simping,” along with women criticizing pastors who said DV was not grounds for divorce. All the while incel chuds, for as much as we know they hate feminists, were whining that conservative women were actually the “most disobedient” and likely trying to hide their past promiscuity behind their newfound conservativism. Hell they were even arguing to Mike Cernovich of all people that all women who partied in college were irredeemable.
Not to say these anti-redpill women were totally woke or whatever, they were usually transphobic, pro-Israel, anti-abortion, and claiming incel/redpill stuff was “just as bad as feminism,” but my takeaways are:
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This redpill/incel/trad shit is tearing the conservative Christian community apart and giving their men brainworms too, the educated and family oriented women of the community are actually unhappy with this trend and the potential partners it’s yielding, and unhappy with the female incel-pandering grifters facilitating their marginalization. That is not to mention the precipitous decline of conservative male church attendance.
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The ideal man as described by a lot of conservative women is actually the “beta soy lib” archetype who isn’t dogmatic about gender roles and is unafraid to show kindness, provided he knows how to shoot a gun/do yardwork. A left/lib female-attracted person who made videos unapologetically espousing their belief in respect and equality in partnerships, in their own terms, might draw as many conservative women fans as they do trad/incel men enemies. A lot of the talking points we on the left find trite and self-evident would be eye opening in some places if they were just articulated again.
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These anti-misogyny conservative women are fighting a losing battle and they don’t admit it to themselves yet, because they keep quoting scripture to justify their entitlement to male fidelity and gentleness, while the scripture was still designed by men to let married men get away with everything from DV to child SA.
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These conservative Christian women go at this new wave of misogyny harder than the left does, because the left oftentimes subconsciously steer away from these online spaces for fear of being ratioed and triggered and these women don’t have that fear because they are still kind of, psychologically speaking, fighting with their ingroup. It’s similar to how the current libertarian presidential candidate was the only guy who appeared on right wing podcasts to unapologetically defend drag queen story hour and trans-friendly bathrooms.
Thoughts? (Also, feel free to repost this anywhere if you like.)
Thanks!
I would say that the only difference now is that if a critical amount of men who profess to share evangelical values end up being cultural tourists who just want to mete out abuse and neglect to women, the women who actually want to raise children in a productive household may evolve their views or expand their horizons when looking for a partner.
I remember going on a date with a conservative nurse who was talking about how her ex could not finish during sex because he watched too much porn, and she straight up said “I’m not a feminist or anything, but women to some men are like, basically objects!” I wonder of this abrupt outsized influx of low value uncompromising men might actually steer Christian/conservative women to look elsewhere for companionship, provided the non-trad and more liberal men boldly and sincerely present themselves and their beliefs.
A lot of the simple minded view on dating is that women want men who are coercive or restrictive, when I think most women just want a man with mettle and a backbone about their worldview, and it’s just that the archetype of current self-identified liberal male feminists are men who seem pandering/performative about their libertine values, and can’t stop tweeting about how slayqueen Kamala Harris looks.
This is all evangelism has ever been. If anything has changed it’s the women, not the men.
Yeah I don’t think the women who have been able to get degrees and PMC careers while remaining conservative Christians, thanks to feminism, are able to fully reconcile the parts of their beliefs that give them meaning with the fact that its overarching philosophy and its outcomes can only serve to protect corrupt men while shaming/blaming their victims. But a lot of these women are also too educated and too aware of their capabilities to ever want to cede the rights they’ve gained, which is why they call the tradwives of TikTok grifters. They even call the sexist pastors “theobros.”
It’s the dialectical problem of having your cake and wanting to eat it too. Being conservative, they want the security of both the career, and the security of conservative values for being a stay-at-home care-giver, without understanding that liberalism is built to dissolve ALL values and replace them with those of the market.
Those that are saying that ‘you must be a high status male to be with me’ have already solved the contradiction in one way, and it’s why incel ideology is so potent, because it IS a common thing that is said among cis-women, even if their actual partner preference and choice doesn’t reflect that.
This is my mom
It’s kind of like my girlfriend’s dad too, who keeps talking about how women are emasculating men, refers to gays with the f-slur, but will also shout while watching that Tim Allen show that it is too sexist.
Evangelicals have been against women’s education my whole life (likely forever) for this and other reasons.