I think going full-vegan from an average diet with several meat-based meals a week is quite a drastic change. It needs some time to learn new recipes, discover new food, new restaurants, develop new patterns in live. I appreciate everyone who at least acknowledges the problem behind animal products and every small step towards vegan is a great progress. Most vegans I met, including myself, went from omnivore to flexitarian to vegetarian to vegan. But sure, hate the people that are working on themselves. If the vegetarians are being hated, they’ll for sure enjoy and continue the transition.
Overall, it would be far better for the planet if all omnivores just reduce their consumption of animal products by 20% instead of 2% more vegans.
If they recognize that they’re in an intermediate step that’s one thing, but people who don’t think they need to keep changing can use a wakeup call. I know I still have a lot of improvements to make
Also if they don’t recognize (yet), it’s still a great thing. I originally just planned to eat less meat. After some time I noticed it’s quite easy, so I decided to vegetarian. And after two years I decided to go vegan. Would have never declared that as my goal.
Apart from that, there’s many aspects in life other than just veganism. Just because one’s vegan doesn’t mean moral superiosity. If you’re looking at the environmental aspect, you can travel less, consume less products, move to a smaller flat, lower the heating/airconditioning, have less children, avoid plastics, pick up trash etc. From a social point of view, you can donate money, engage in charity, do social jobs (firefighter, care worker, …), support your local community and businesses.
For all these things, there’s not just black and white and no one is perfect. Using less plastics is better than not caring at all. Picking up trash twice a year is better than never and eating less meat is better than three times a day.
I’d say veganism is - in general - morally superior to non-veganism. But that doesn’t automatically make all vegans better and all non-vegans worse people.
You can be a vegan and still (in)directly hurt animals.
I generally agree with most of what you’re saying, it’s is still stricly speaking better. That said, I have anecdotally seen a lot of people saying vegancirclejerk style memes making fun of vegetarians were the push they needed to go vegan, but I don’t know whether the people who get turned away by anti-vegetarian memes outweigh the people who had a positive reaction
making fun of vegetarians were the push they needed to go vegan
There are all kinds of different people, so I 100% agree theses cases exist. But be assured there are also cases where vegetarians feel bullied by both sides. The omnivores mock them for skipping the good stuff and the vegans for not going full blown.
At least in my experience, it’s more effective and motivating to praise people for their efforts and progress than to blame them for what’s still bad.
Skill issue. I spontaneously went from carnist to vegan three weeks before christmas. Change butter for margarine, cows milk with one of the dozen vegan alternatives and eggs are only really necessary when baking cakes and shit not for your regular diet. Easy.
What regular everyday dishes depend on nonvegan options to the extent that they cant just be omitted? If Im coming home from uni Im not going to fire up a barbecue Ill probably make some stir fry or spaghetti
If you just ommit all non-vegan products I highly doubt the average person would end up with a diverse, healthy and tasty diet.
French fries, pasta with tomato sauce, some veggies might be left, yeah.
You need to find new sources of protein such as lentils, peas, beans, tofu, tempeh, nuts etc. Ideally, you should learn at least the basics about nutrients, healthy fats, vitamins, etc.
And then you have to learn new recipes. In Germany many traditional dishes are just some kind of carbs with some kind of meat. If you then want to do Indian curries, lentil lasagna, black bean patties, seitan burgers, tofu bolognese etc. you need new ingredients, new recipes, possibly even new kitchen supplies.
I live in germany i am german and I had 0 issue going vegan by just omitting whats not vegan. Like even at christmas there is mash, there is red cabbage, there are lentils, gravy it really is not difficult technically speaking. You got to give up your treats however, so more akin to quitting smoking.
That’s really cool! But it’s not that easy for everyone. In my family even vegetarian food barely existed growing up. Lentils were at best used to make soup and that soup also contained bacon or sausages. Mash is made with milk and potentially butter. Even salads often contained bacon, cheese or at the very least milk in the seasoning. Even store-bought bread is not necessarily vegan. Red cabbage should be vegan even in my family, I agree. So while everyone else is feasting duck, mash, various appetizers, desserts, christmas cookies, I would have been left with cabbage. Not exactly healthy and tasty. More a concept for being laughted about.
Sure, if you’re an experienced cook already and mostly prepare your own food, it might be easier. But in my situation, going vegan step-by-step also gave my social circles some time to adapt to the new situation. So there’s less weird comments and less social pressure to ‘stop with that bullshit’.
By the way, as you mentioned smoking: also cigarettes aren’t vegan in many cases. I luckily was never addicted to that shit but if I imagine myself in the ‘cabbage situation’ above who is now also on tobacco withdrawal that sounds like a perfect intro for a mental crisis. Not exactly a situation that would have motivated myself to keep going. Nevertheless, for those affected, try to stop smoking guys! :)
Uh, I know this is a meme community but what’s with vegetarians? Surely reducing the use of animal products is better than nothing
Better than nothing but still views animals as resources to exploit. It’s still ok with serious injustice, just a little less
I think going full-vegan from an average diet with several meat-based meals a week is quite a drastic change. It needs some time to learn new recipes, discover new food, new restaurants, develop new patterns in live. I appreciate everyone who at least acknowledges the problem behind animal products and every small step towards vegan is a great progress. Most vegans I met, including myself, went from omnivore to flexitarian to vegetarian to vegan. But sure, hate the people that are working on themselves. If the vegetarians are being hated, they’ll for sure enjoy and continue the transition.
Overall, it would be far better for the planet if all omnivores just reduce their consumption of animal products by 20% instead of 2% more vegans.
If they recognize that they’re in an intermediate step that’s one thing, but people who don’t think they need to keep changing can use a wakeup call. I know I still have a lot of improvements to make
Also if they don’t recognize (yet), it’s still a great thing. I originally just planned to eat less meat. After some time I noticed it’s quite easy, so I decided to vegetarian. And after two years I decided to go vegan. Would have never declared that as my goal.
Apart from that, there’s many aspects in life other than just veganism. Just because one’s vegan doesn’t mean moral superiosity. If you’re looking at the environmental aspect, you can travel less, consume less products, move to a smaller flat, lower the heating/airconditioning, have less children, avoid plastics, pick up trash etc. From a social point of view, you can donate money, engage in charity, do social jobs (firefighter, care worker, …), support your local community and businesses.
For all these things, there’s not just black and white and no one is perfect. Using less plastics is better than not caring at all. Picking up trash twice a year is better than never and eating less meat is better than three times a day.
I’d say veganism is - in general - morally superior to non-veganism. But that doesn’t automatically make all vegans better and all non-vegans worse people.
You can be a vegan and still (in)directly hurt animals.
You can be a vegan and still destroy the planet.
You can be a vegan and still be an asshole.
*‘you’ is not meant to be you, @iiGxC@slrpnk.net . ;)
I generally agree with most of what you’re saying, it’s is still stricly speaking better. That said, I have anecdotally seen a lot of people saying vegancirclejerk style memes making fun of vegetarians were the push they needed to go vegan, but I don’t know whether the people who get turned away by anti-vegetarian memes outweigh the people who had a positive reaction
There are all kinds of different people, so I 100% agree theses cases exist. But be assured there are also cases where vegetarians feel bullied by both sides. The omnivores mock them for skipping the good stuff and the vegans for not going full blown.
At least in my experience, it’s more effective and motivating to praise people for their efforts and progress than to blame them for what’s still bad.
Skill issue. I spontaneously went from carnist to vegan three weeks before christmas. Change butter for margarine, cows milk with one of the dozen vegan alternatives and eggs are only really necessary when baking cakes and shit not for your regular diet. Easy.
That’s what I said. If you want to change that involves learning.
What regular everyday dishes depend on nonvegan options to the extent that they cant just be omitted? If Im coming home from uni Im not going to fire up a barbecue Ill probably make some stir fry or spaghetti
If you just ommit all non-vegan products I highly doubt the average person would end up with a diverse, healthy and tasty diet.
French fries, pasta with tomato sauce, some veggies might be left, yeah.
You need to find new sources of protein such as lentils, peas, beans, tofu, tempeh, nuts etc. Ideally, you should learn at least the basics about nutrients, healthy fats, vitamins, etc.
And then you have to learn new recipes. In Germany many traditional dishes are just some kind of carbs with some kind of meat. If you then want to do Indian curries, lentil lasagna, black bean patties, seitan burgers, tofu bolognese etc. you need new ingredients, new recipes, possibly even new kitchen supplies.
I live in germany i am german and I had 0 issue going vegan by just omitting whats not vegan. Like even at christmas there is mash, there is red cabbage, there are lentils, gravy it really is not difficult technically speaking. You got to give up your treats however, so more akin to quitting smoking.
That’s really cool! But it’s not that easy for everyone. In my family even vegetarian food barely existed growing up. Lentils were at best used to make soup and that soup also contained bacon or sausages. Mash is made with milk and potentially butter. Even salads often contained bacon, cheese or at the very least milk in the seasoning. Even store-bought bread is not necessarily vegan. Red cabbage should be vegan even in my family, I agree. So while everyone else is feasting duck, mash, various appetizers, desserts, christmas cookies, I would have been left with cabbage. Not exactly healthy and tasty. More a concept for being laughted about.
Sure, if you’re an experienced cook already and mostly prepare your own food, it might be easier. But in my situation, going vegan step-by-step also gave my social circles some time to adapt to the new situation. So there’s less weird comments and less social pressure to ‘stop with that bullshit’.
By the way, as you mentioned smoking: also cigarettes aren’t vegan in many cases. I luckily was never addicted to that shit but if I imagine myself in the ‘cabbage situation’ above who is now also on tobacco withdrawal that sounds like a perfect intro for a mental crisis. Not exactly a situation that would have motivated myself to keep going. Nevertheless, for those affected, try to stop smoking guys! :)