Yes, that’s what they strive for today but generally are not able to achieve. Better accuracy on the tracker would allow better accuracy on the room tracking, since to do that you essentially need quite accurate triangulation. You’ve got to multiply the innacuracy of 3 trackers together and that’s the innacuracy of the whole system. If each can be off by one meter, then you have a ~3 meter circle in which the thing can actually track you with confidence. Which is not enough to reliably say which room you are in. a 3cm circle would definitely be enough. Probably you could get by with up to 5-10 cm and still do pretty well.
Bluetooth seems to propagate down the product line faster than UWB, so for people who wants budget devices but also have more accurate tracking functions, this might be better.
It’s not a joke. UWB adoption could easily stay ahead of Bluetooth 6 adoption. There’s nothing requiring phone manufacturers to always update to the latest Bluetooth, just like there’s still not very many 5G mmWave phones available.
It could go either way. Bluetooth 6 might be more familiar for manufacturers to implement, but if the hardware is different to support the accuracy, who knows?
“easily”? Please, name one device that has UWB and doesn’t include bluetooth.
Besides, if this is included in 6.0 and assuming it does cost much more per chip, where’s the harm in having a better feature set? This seems like an incredibly pointless discussion.
No tinfoil hat needed. Retail stores are equipped with bluetooth beacons that tracks and monitors customer behavior. This in turn can be sold for targeted advertising. Another scary thought is that the tracking is so precise, it measures the distance your phone is from a product, including height. How high is the phone from the ground? The data points can be extrapolated to influence product placement: what products and prices influenced a customer to bend down and look at/interact with the product? How long were they in close proximity with the product? Based on the phone’s orientation, were they bent down to look at or passing by the product (indicating that they stopped for a separate reason and not necessarily for the product)? Did they buy it? Were they looking for coupons in my “retail store app” while next to the product, or somewhere else in the store? Where do customers often stop or gather in order to browse through coupons? Could we place Y products there? Where should we put the product in stores to maximize sales? What ads can we send to them as they arrive at the store? Based on aggregated data with the rich profile we built for this customer, are they likely to sign up for our rewards credit card? What is this customer’s income level? Have they purchased X product recently? What part of town do they live in? What products are popular there? Et cetera ad nauseum.
Tracking is so predatory. Makes me look at my smart phone with disgust as the years go by, and I periodically grapple with the decision if a smart phone is even right for me or if it’s time to stick to a computer and a truly dumb phone going forward.
Some supermarkets are using digital price displays now. Can’t wait for the “adaptive pricing” like the personalised advertising in the film Minority Reports!
Here comes Bluetooth MAC address: DE:AD:BE:EF. He often pauses near the chocolate biscuits so likely buys some. Lets update the choc biscuit pricing removing the sale pricing as he’ll buy them at full price anyway…
These beacons are small, inobtrusive electronic devices that are hidden throughout the grocery store; an app on your phone that communicates with them informed the company not only that you had entered the building, but that you had lingered for two minutes in front of the low-fat Chobanis.
Well that solves the problem. Don’t let sketchy apps access your Bluetooth/location
They don’t have to be connected to see your device. Just like how Find My Device works by searching for the Bluetooth signal. You’d need to have Bluetooth completely off, so no smart watches or headphones for you in the grocery store I guess.
Exactly, and this is additionally why it is predatory: you can’t opt out.
It’s similar to Facebook. If you never in your life ever created a profile, well, Facebook has one for you regardless.
The only way you can opt out of bluetooth beacons is to not bring your phone/smart watch/etc, or have either a hardware switch that disables your network functions or put it in a faraday cage. Also, because of data profiles and associations, if you’re walking into a store with your partner, expect that your partner should do the same or else it’s all moot. You’re associated with your partner and thus tracking and profiling occurs anyway.
Add in the facial recognition technology they’re also deploying and go to the next level of Dante; what do people’s habits who look like “x” who are with people(kids, partners, friends) who buy “y” and don’t buy “z”?
I’d like something like a ring or wristwatch that unlocks my PC when I’m close enough to the keyboard, and locks it again when I go away. For that tracking would be pretty good.
Why would you need centimeter-level accuracy?
Very nice for home automation- have your music and lights follow you around the house for example. Check out Room Assistant
Sounds kind of like room-level accuracy
Yes, that’s what they strive for today but generally are not able to achieve. Better accuracy on the tracker would allow better accuracy on the room tracking, since to do that you essentially need quite accurate triangulation. You’ve got to multiply the innacuracy of 3 trackers together and that’s the innacuracy of the whole system. If each can be off by one meter, then you have a ~3 meter circle in which the thing can actually track you with confidence. Which is not enough to reliably say which room you are in. a 3cm circle would definitely be enough. Probably you could get by with up to 5-10 cm and still do pretty well.
So you know which sofa cushion the EarPod is under
Ask JD Vance?
I lost my watch in snow in forest once. Had to use one of those finder apps, centimeter level accuracy would have saved 2 hours
FindMy tags? Like the ones Pebblebee and Chipolo make.
Or you could just get a Moto tag, which already supports Google FindMy and has centimeter accuracy thanks to UWB
Bluetooth seems to propagate down the product line faster than UWB, so for people who wants budget devices but also have more accurate tracking functions, this might be better.
Not all phones have UWB. On the other hand, they do have Bluetooth.
Some phones have UWB. Zero phones have Bluetooth 6.0
Well yeah, it hasn’t been released yet. Is this your idea of a joke?
It’s not a joke. UWB adoption could easily stay ahead of Bluetooth 6 adoption. There’s nothing requiring phone manufacturers to always update to the latest Bluetooth, just like there’s still not very many 5G mmWave phones available.
It could go either way. Bluetooth 6 might be more familiar for manufacturers to implement, but if the hardware is different to support the accuracy, who knows?
“easily”? Please, name one device that has UWB and doesn’t include bluetooth.
Besides, if this is included in 6.0 and assuming it does cost much more per chip, where’s the harm in having a better feature set? This seems like an incredibly pointless discussion.
This is why I turn off Bluetooth before heading into the supermarket… <tips tin foil hat>
No tinfoil hat needed. Retail stores are equipped with bluetooth beacons that tracks and monitors customer behavior. This in turn can be sold for targeted advertising. Another scary thought is that the tracking is so precise, it measures the distance your phone is from a product, including height. How high is the phone from the ground? The data points can be extrapolated to influence product placement: what products and prices influenced a customer to bend down and look at/interact with the product? How long were they in close proximity with the product? Based on the phone’s orientation, were they bent down to look at or passing by the product (indicating that they stopped for a separate reason and not necessarily for the product)? Did they buy it? Were they looking for coupons in my “retail store app” while next to the product, or somewhere else in the store? Where do customers often stop or gather in order to browse through coupons? Could we place Y products there? Where should we put the product in stores to maximize sales? What ads can we send to them as they arrive at the store? Based on aggregated data with the rich profile we built for this customer, are they likely to sign up for our rewards credit card? What is this customer’s income level? Have they purchased X product recently? What part of town do they live in? What products are popular there? Et cetera ad nauseum.
Tracking is so predatory. Makes me look at my smart phone with disgust as the years go by, and I periodically grapple with the decision if a smart phone is even right for me or if it’s time to stick to a computer and a truly dumb phone going forward.
Some public info about Bluetooth beacons: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html
Want to find Bluetooth beacons? Simply install a Bluetooth scanner app from your phone and head to a store to see them.
Here’s how Shopify engages businesses on how to utilize Bluetooth beacons with their software package. Bought anything online? That site was most likely powered by Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/retail/the-ultimate-guide-to-using-beacon-technology-for-retail-stores
<Replaces tin foil hat with Fedora>
Thanks for all this info - I feel less crazy now!
Some supermarkets are using digital price displays now. Can’t wait for the “adaptive pricing” like the personalised advertising in the film Minority Reports!
Here comes Bluetooth MAC address: DE:AD:BE:EF. He often pauses near the chocolate biscuits so likely buys some. Lets update the choc biscuit pricing removing the sale pricing as he’ll buy them at full price anyway…
Wait, don’t Bluetooth devices randomize their macs like wifi to hide their identities from unpaired devices?
Well that solves the problem. Don’t let sketchy apps access your Bluetooth/location
They don’t have to be connected to see your device. Just like how Find My Device works by searching for the Bluetooth signal. You’d need to have Bluetooth completely off, so no smart watches or headphones for you in the grocery store I guess.
Indeed! If Bluetooth is enabled on your device it will send beacon/polls and so be visible.
The recent “Find your offline devices” enhancement to Android’s Find My Device app has made me wonder if having Bluetooth off is even enough?
Exactly, and this is additionally why it is predatory: you can’t opt out.
It’s similar to Facebook. If you never in your life ever created a profile, well, Facebook has one for you regardless.
The only way you can opt out of bluetooth beacons is to not bring your phone/smart watch/etc, or have either a hardware switch that disables your network functions or put it in a faraday cage. Also, because of data profiles and associations, if you’re walking into a store with your partner, expect that your partner should do the same or else it’s all moot. You’re associated with your partner and thus tracking and profiling occurs anyway.
Yay technology!
<sigh>
iBeacon and Eddystone
Add in the facial recognition technology they’re also deploying and go to the next level of Dante; what do people’s habits who look like “x” who are with people(kids, partners, friends) who buy “y” and don’t buy “z”?
Well, lucky for you, it’s all camera based now.
Thank Covid that surgical masks in public are a thing!
I don’t actually wear a mask shopping nowadays but some of those who have been around the sun many times do. Perhaps we should?
I’d like something like a ring or wristwatch that unlocks my PC when I’m close enough to the keyboard, and locks it again when I go away. For that tracking would be pretty good.
Additional automated systems, including one called “Where’s Daddy?” also revealed here for the first time, were used specifically to track the targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their family’s residences.
What is making my excited is the potential to use this for indoor position tracking for placing persistent virtual displays.
Track the dog.
Car