(I am a noob. I have many misconceptions. I am willing to listen however, so please be kind)
I wonder if:
- a mini PC might be a good thing to lug around (instead of a laptop)
- nice also because it is much cheaper than a laptop (due to different design constraints)
- but whom to trust? Beelink and Minisforum come up in HackerNews discussions, but I have trust issues
My question: which (mini) PC manufacturers are kind, reliable, trustworthy?
My trust issues are:
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I find it difficult to believe that I am buying anything of quality whether or not I am not paying a lot (briefly I had a period of hope where I thought that perhaps paying more in general would be a good thing as far as quality is concerned, and that hypothesis did not hold up)
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I find it difficult to believe that most products created in China/Asia-more-generally are built with kindness in mind (kindness for the worker, kindness for the consumer, kindness for everything in between): e.g. see the plethora of absolute shit that floods Amazon, Temu, etc.)
The second point, on China, deserves clarification:
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I only mention China specifically because computer hardware in general is designed and produced there, and when mini PCs are concerned, most manufacturers are based in China: e.g. Beelink and Minisforum
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it is not an issue of worker skill or product quality: I know I can get excellent goods that are worth far more than what they actually sell for (e.g. Chi-fi earbuds!), and that almost everything is made in Asia
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I work for a company that produces goods in China, and “we” ““make”” (I make nothing) good stuff! Part of our edge comes from comes from the fact that my company’s owner is Chinese and puts in a lot of care into working with factories that are kind (to their workers: clothing manufacturers are often shit to women and pay them less, because misogyny is a thing everywhere) — they wouldn’t have to put in this care if it wasn’t a problem to begin with
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my trust issue is ultimately due to: I think most persons working in the production chain for most goods that western consumers consume are unhappy, regardless of where they live (e.g. from the people who do the final delivery to our doorstep, to the people who initially mine the raw materials)
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most of this anger is well-justified: e.g. my government and companies operating out of my country are in general, callous, but especially when it comes to Asians and Africans; some of this anger is due to how convenient it is for local leaders to make the “other” a problem, as a distraction
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anyway, getting distracted, but my point is that: if a product I buy is being made by unhappy people, then I am going to be cursed for using it: it will be full of toxic chemicals they had to endure while making it, it will be full of their spite they have for me not paying enough for their hard work, etc. the list goes ever on
(Sorry for this insanity.)
Good on you for looking for an ethically sound option! Can’t speak to their manufacturing, but Valve has the Steam Deck you can get cheap, runs Linux in desktop mode (still handeld, just called that to differentiate from SteamOS). Works rather well! And Valve is nowhere near perfect, but they’re much less of an ethical quagmire than some other producers.
Seconded
At least if you order from China you’re supporting the people doing the work, rather than some shitty western bundler like Apple or Dell.
Wouldn’t the surplus profit just go to the CEO of the company? I can’t imagine there’s much difference for the average worker in China between mass manufacturing PC’s for direct sale vs. Mass manufacturing for another brand.
I don’t believe there are many worker coops building PCs, unfortunately.
Even if so, a Chinese CEO pays taxes in China and re-invests the profits in Chinese companies.
I don’t see that as any more desirable than a US or Russian CEO doing the same. It’s all wage slavery for the people generating those profits, and it’s all gravy for the CEOs to funnel into offshore accounts. Only funding a worker coop would make it more ethical and desirable, regardless of geographic location/regime, IMHO.
I once had a coworker that used a mini PC instead of a laptop for work. Being lighter, and more powerful worked well for him.
My understanding is that each brand will contract out the design and manufacturing, with potentially totally different factories and people involved. So the same brand will have models that are built totally differently, in terms of quality and ethics. This happens from the cheapest no name products to big western brands. Make sure to check reviews for the specific model, and not blanket trust one brand to be ‘good’. Notebook check and robtech on youtube do mini PC reviews.
I feel you on the ethics side, and unfortunately it’s pretty difficult to ever avoid. You can try buying second hand, at least save something from landfill and get a bargain.
never once has a lenovo laptop fail me when using Linux. I know the prices depending on your preference might not be amazing but second hand there are some bangers out there like it never hurts to check your local repair shop or recycling operation.
Fair, I am sick and tired of laptops because their screens just leave a lot to be desired…
…but the same is true of a lot of desktop screens too! Pixel density matters…
I get that. Input lag via HDMI is also annoying if you’re used to 1ms on desktop then get hit with that 3ms due to hardware constraints. That’s why if I had the income I would absolutely get my hands on a desktop grade laptop not for the portability but for the raw performance.
i love the idea of mini pc too but i really want to be sure that they are:
- really good at low power scenarios and adapting when usage goes up
- really low noise and easy to clean if fans and dust involved (i wonder if passive cooling would be better/possible)
generally i don’t think they need to be very powerful for my self hosting needs
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Are you sure you want a mini PC? You will need a display. If you carry a display around with you it’s just as awkward as a laptop. If you don’t carry a display around you won’t be able to use your computer on the go. You will also have to plug into walls or buy a battery pack that outputs the tight voltage.
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Supply chains for computers are opaque. You’d need to go inspect the factory yourself, basically. An alternative is to buy used, which slightly distances you from the consumption.
Personally I’d say to look into a used thinkpad. If you definitely want a mini PC, look into a used 1 liter business PC like the ThinkCentre M series. The slightly older models can be purchased on eBay for around $130.
Fairly sure I’d prefer a mini PC to a ThinkPad, even a used one, because I don’t like the screens or keyboards on most laptops :(
Honestly, displays are everywhere if you carry the right adapters or your device has the ports. Mice and Keyboards are a whole other beast for portability and convenience. Think I would rather skip from a laptop to a tablet, versus a mini-pc.
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I don’t think you’ll be able to find products in this category that are as ethical as you desire. I think our present incarnation of capitalism eradicated the concept already. I may be horribly cynical, however.
Seems OP would settle for “as ethically as possible from among the available options”, and is looking for pointers towards that direction.
Came here to dunk on the idea of any positive correlation between kindness and trustworthiness, found a bunch of “holistic” non-sense mixed with good intentions. That said …
I prefer blunt people and trustworthy results. End-of-the-day, I don’t care about intentions and goodwill outside of direct, inter-personal interactions. Considering intentions first over results as a cultural value is a concept I don’t often even encounter, but good on you.
I can live with quite a few otherwise substandard things in my life where I know they came from a place of love, but that brakes down versus strangers rather quickly, and corporations? I would sooner slash their tires for shits-n-giggles, or send my first-born off to be raised by sketchy fae creatures, than ever trust their intentions. In my country, they(corporations) are, by law and definition, the worst sorts of “people”. They ARE the real inhuman other our grandparents warned us about, made manifest.
All that said, good on you for being so eager to trust and abide. I hope it works out for you.
I don’t think we are too different in how we approach the world. I think kindness is correlated with trustworthiness because my definition of kindness is:
- honesty
- giving others enough slack to be honest
If we are buying goods from factories where people are treated unkindly, then there’s a higher probability that the goods we purchase will be poisoned. Many different definitions of poison exist. All are work in this context.
I would call your #2 accomodating … I think of kindness as more proactive and unsolicited.
As for #1, if I don’t care enough to lie to make you happy, then I’m definitely going to come across as un-kind(which I would prefer, as people exploit kindness, but…). For an example, it costs me nothing to use someone’s pro-nouns when I can remember them, no matter how batshit I may think a specific identity is(ie: “superstraights”?).
Okay, who am I kidding? “Superstraights” are right at the bottom of list, next to Nazis, when it comes to “people whose bullshit I will humor and not call out”, but I can’t be bothered with a better example at the moment.
