• JokeDeity@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    There really are a lot of commies on here aren’t there?

    Well not real ones, obviously, but like 15 year olds whose parents work late. Lots of those types of communists.

    • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Lol, I’ve been wondering how to describe them…

      Like, I have a buddy who’s a communist, and we agree on everything. I come on Lemmy and say I don’t agree with the most extreme forms of socialism and communism, though, and I get straight up shit on and banned as if I said something incredibly offensive.

        • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Oh I’m well aware. Hexbear seems to be the biggest hive of bastards I’ve encountered on all of the federated instances. Every hexbear post I see is either super right wing or just insanely cringe My Little Pony type stuff.

            • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              I get the impression everyone on there is typically on 4chan. It’s a cesspool.

                • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Hexbear users can be obnoxious, but they’re not “pedo right wing shit heads.” Ask them what they think about pedos and right wingers.

                  To clarify my tone, I’m not some scoffing, irony-poisoned debatelord, and when I say “it’s wild” I’m not rolling my eyes sarcastically, I’m genuinely surprised to see this shit.

        • Godric@lemmy.worldOP
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          1 year ago

          Lol no, they’re not right wing. They just share the trait of being moronically devoted to their preferred ideology.

        • oatscoop@midwest.social
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          1 year ago

          Oh, they’re real – I’ve met several in person. It’s very rare they’re older than “young adult”.

        • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          I can’t keep track of this one-dimensional political spectrum people keep using. I thought tankies, socialists, communists, and liberals were all considered left wing, but I keep hearing things about some of these groups being on the right instead.

          When can we upgrade to the political tesseract?

          • AmberPrince@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Yeah, people say right-wing when what they mean is authoritarian. There’s a guy named Bob Altemeyer that has been studying authoritarianism for decades and he makes a distinction between left wing and right wing authoritarianism.

            • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              That’d make sense, but there’s a good deal of stuff typically considered left wing (like antimisinformation and gun control) that is authoritarian too. Nothing inherently wrong with that, as long as it’s handled fairly, of course.

              The troll in me kinda wants to see how people would react if I started calling them righties for wanting to stop hate speech, but I think I know better.

              • Cabrio@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Society requires a socially agreed upon level of authoritarianism to enforce the socially agreed upon ruleset. No system of organisation or control is absent from authority, but trying to conflate functional social authority with forced authoritarianism has been something I’m seeing a lot more from fascist thinkers.

                Authority: When the majority tell the government how they wish to be controlled.

                Authoritarianism: When the government tells the majority how they will be controlled.

                • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  Huh… I see you set a bit of a rhetorical trap there, where disagreeing or countering would make me seem like one of these fascist thinkers. Nice. Might not have been intentional though.

                  Anyways, I see them as different steps along the same spectrum. Authority is a component of authoritarianism, but the presence of authority is not necessarily indicative of authoritarianism. Authoritarianism is authority taken too far.

                  On that topic, non-authoritarian authority is not always a good thing, nor does good authority necessarily stem from the will of the people. Sometimes the masses really don’t know what’s best. That said, democracy is probably still the best paradigm humans can manage on a long term.

                  • Cabrio@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Whether the will of the masses is “right” or “wrong” is irrelevant, society as a construct is one of cooperation for mutual benefit and improved quality of life through cedeing control and authority to those who represent the will of the majority, so if the masses managed to corral themselves into society then the understanding of the benefit of cooperation is strong in the social consciousness.

                    A result of this is the understanding that anything that works against the will of the masses to benefit from cooperation is unsustainable because it involves exploitation of the least protected sections of society.

                    This means that anyone trying to abuse and mismanage social systems for their own selfish benefit (emotional, financial, or otherwise) are objectively harming society. Ergo, anything that restricts the will of the masses by allowing selfish minorities to exploit their way to wealth and power and to further let them diminish the capacity of the majority to benefit from social cooperation is forced without consent, we call these actions “fascist”.

                    Fascism was the default social structure, he who controls the resources controls the society, but instead of that being an elected government of the populace it was one guy and his family that abused their position to maintain that position however possible from the first time an ape stole another ape’s rock to a king stealing another king’s country.

                    Society has slowly been slowly wresting control from the selfish individual to support the masses as social consciousness grows, democracy was one of the biggest steps in that direction of taking the power out of the hands of fascists and putting it into the hands of the people. But it’s a work in progress, and those that are selfish and want to hold back the progress of social benefit are thusly called conservatives, because they wish to conserve the ability to abuse society for chance to gain more wealth and power than other people as opposed to contributing to society to increase the wealth and power of all the people.

                    Many of these fascist systems still exist and will take a significant about of time for society to claim more control away from fascist actors, there will always be an ebb and flow of fascism and selfishness in society but that lessens as time goes on. For example, the Democratic electoral system of the US government has been unable to avoid the influence of fascism over the years as evident by legal voter disenfranchisement through first past the post, non-preferential voting, gerrymandering, the electoral college, attempts to limit and remove citizens rights to engage with the electoral system by de-funding postal services and limiting mail voting, etc. These are all fascist claw backs attempting to regain selfish control over societies power structures for their percieved personal benefit.

                    Capitalism, a system integrated into almost all modern world cultures and societies is also a fascist concession that is a middle ground between kings owning everything in their kingdom to personal ownership and control, of course exploitation is still present under capitalism, because capitalism is just a stepping stone to a socially beneficial system not an end point of social development, it is also one of the last bastions of fascist control over wealth consolidation.

                    I could go on about how all these developments relate to issues in the social order and the inability for individuals to develop cognisance of the nuances of societies current place in human development but it’s starting to feel like rambling.

                    If anything I hope that something I said resonates and provides context and understanding of the complex weave that is human social development.

            • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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              1 year ago

              This is the take that bothers me the most, as if the most aggressive and outspoken faction of any group exist only to drag the more respectable members down by association.

              I would be one thing to say, “I don’t understand that group”, but it’s quite remarkable to say, “I understand that group so little that they must be the opposition in disguise”

              • FaeDrifter@midwest.social
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                1 year ago

                This is the take that bothers me the most, as if the most aggressive and outspoken faction of any group exist only to drag the more respectable members down by association.

                Eh, only a small minority of hexbears are fascists, but almost all hexbears tolerate fascists. All the fascists have to do is walk in and say “NATO is bad, Ukraine is bad, libs are bad, vote for Trump because he is a big lovable goofball” and the other hexbears are like aight let’s own the shitlibs.

                • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  only a small minority of hexbears are fascists, but almost all hexbears tolerate fascists

                  A huge portion of hexbear users are trans or otherwise LGBTQ. Ask them what they think fascists want to do to them. Fascists also massacre socialists — often with American support, as in Indonesia, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, Argentina, and Bolivia. Ask them how they feel about this. Hexbear users do hold some complex views on topics like China and Russia, but they have reasons for this and would tell you if you asked. You should consider talking to them, instead of making things up about them in an authoritative tone of voice. You’ll be hard-pressed to find a hexbear user who doesn’t want Trump dead or in jail.

                  • FaeDrifter@midwest.social
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                    1 year ago

                    A huge portion of hexbear users are trans or otherwise LGBTQ. Ask them what they think fascists want to do to them.

                    Maybe I should ask Jessica Watkins, who explicitly supported fascists, and is now being misgendered and put in the wrong prison by fascists, for supporting fascists.

                    Trans and genderqueer people can be just as stupid as Cishet people and vote for the leapords eating faces party. It’s not like fascism actually benefits people, it’s predatory to vulnerable people.

                    You should consider talking to them, instead of making things up about them in an authoritative tone of voice.

                    I have interacted quite a bit already. I got lots of animal poop pictures and a lot of people requesting that I post a picture of my genitalia.

                    You’ll be hard-pressed to find a hexbear user who doesn’t want Trump dead or in jail.

                    I’ve seen a number of comments from Hexbears supporting DJT and not a single comment expressing this.

              • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                It’s blatant though? They use right wing talking points for everything and it’s all dog whistles?

                • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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                  1 year ago

                  “Geopolitics exists as a binary, and on some issues they agree with the opposite binary from me”.

                  Worse actually, “they might agree with me on one issue but they disagree on another, so they must be pretending to agree with me to begin with”

                  • FaeDrifter@midwest.social
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                    1 year ago

                    On hexbear, geopolitics exists as whatever hexbears feel like owns the shitlibs the most at that particular moment.

                    Sometimes, Russia is just months away from a well planned and strategized victory, against an evil Nazi Ukraine.

                    Other times, everything is a mastermind NATO move that’s all benefiting NATO, and Ukraine is just the meatgrinder victim.

                    What feels most alt-right about hexbear isn’t any particular position, but the fact that there’s no particular position. No logical cohesiveness, no rooted in solid reality. It’s superfluid ever changing dream reality.

          • s_s@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            There’s not many all-in on authoritarianism that aren’t extreme left or right economically.

            The political compass is better than a one-dimensional spectrum, but it’s literally twice as complicated.

            You can pretty safely plot a symmetrical U shaped line running through the political compass and find almost everybody. That’s why one-axis works well for describing the political climate of the USA, it’s mostly in the right half of the political compass sitting on this line.

            So tankies are very Communist (left) and necessarily very authoritarian to achieve their goals.

            They represent the other half of the political compass that Americans usually do not see. So people on here frequently get confused when exposed to tankies.

            And you also have the tankies talking about the Bernie-Sanders-style/social democrats (found at the vertex of our U shape) as “right” because if you follow the U line, they would be.

            • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Yeah, political compass is more precise, but I like splitting social and economics too, which makes a cube. Then I said tesseract as a joke.

              But “us vs them” doesn’t work as well when “them” has so much nuance.

          • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            “In popular discourse, the horseshoe theory asserts that the far-left and the far-right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear continuum of the political spectrum, closely resemble each other, analogous to the way that the opposite ends of a horseshoe are close together.”

            From Wikipedia

            image for visualizing

        • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Extreme left-wing ideology is indistinguishable from extreme right-wing ideology. They both want to kill lots of people, and if you aren’t on their side you’re on their shit list.

    • rambaroo@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The irony of saying this when the students at Tiananmen were literally protesting against the CCP for not being communist enough.

      • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Go on. What’s ironic about my statement and what you just brought up? Why do you think me saying that there are a lot of commies here, has anything to do with my view on what happened in Tiananmen Square?

      • Ubermeisters@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        ? your comment makes no fucking sense. Why do you people try SO HARD to have a dissenting but relevant opinion constantly? its tiring, go fuck yourself.

      • TheLurker@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Shut the fuck up you brain-dead tankie, troll farm employee.

        The demonstration was about the lack of democratic reforms. Literally one of the alternative names given was the '89 Democracy Movement '.

        • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          There were multiple perspectives represented among the protesters. Some waved slogans for democracy, others had framed paintings of Mao Zedong. The protests went on for months and were not a unified, centrally organized affair.

          • TheLurker@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            No one is buying your Soviet Revisionism bullshit. It’s a tired old cliche and we stopped listening many years ago.

            • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              *I have pictures, mentioning this at the top because apparently no one reads this comment

              I’m not the person you replied to earlier. I don’t know how the Soviets factor into this, and I don’t think it’s necessarily ideological to mention a concrete detail about an event. Established, western, non-communist, non-china-supporting media sources covered the protests in person for months, and their reports and pictures show a spread of perspectives among the protesters. Deng Xiaoping’s government had detractors from multiple directions.

              two pictures, spoilered to not take up space in the thread

              • TheLurker@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Sigh, I have pictures of Captain America fighting a Nazi skull monster. Does this prove Nazi Germany had skull monsters in its ranks?

                Knock it off and go back to your tankie echo chamber where you all circle jerk each other to alternate history hub levels of fantasy politics.

                Or else come back with published, verifiable and academically accepted papers to support this fantasy narrative you are pushing.