• Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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    2 months ago

    I disagree that this is subjective. Even if someone hypothetically doesn’t accept the ZF[C], the statement still accurately describes reality, in a way that doesn’t depend on the subject. For example, you can’t start with two apples and two oranges and have five or tree fruits.

    • iii@mander.xyz
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      2 months ago

      Yet in some contexts it isn’t as easy as that. You can combine 1 liter of water with 1 liter of alcohol, and get less than 2 liters of fluids. (1)

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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        2 months ago

        The volume of a mixture cannot be described by a simple sum of the volume of its components. As such, this does not make the statement “1+1=2” false in this situation; it’s still true but irrelevant, there’s no “+” here on first place.

        Additionally, let us suppose for a moment that the reasoning above is invalid. Even then, it’s still an objective matter - because then the truth value of “1+1=2” would vary depending on the object (are we dealing with apples, or liquid mixtures?), not on the subject (who’s mixing the liquids - you or me?).

        • iii@mander.xyz
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          2 months ago

          It’s subjective as in: imagine a different society/species constructing a sense of reality and computation, based on liquid mixtures. Their basis of computation, their axiom is 1l of alcohol + 1l of water = 2l of mixture.

          They meet us, and we exchange ideas.

          They go: of course 1 + 1 = 2, look at our mixture. For fruits, apples and pears? That’s outside of normal arithmetics, it’s an exception. There’s no + there, as you’re not mixing. You have to correct for the non mixture nature, the answer will be larger than 2.

      • jmcs
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        2 months ago

        But at that point you are out of realm of simple arithmetics any way.