Neurodivergent individuals often have a harder time finding jobs than their non-neurodivergent counterparts. Unemployment for neurodivergent adults runs
I read the article but I didn’t check out the platform yet. Thought it might be useful for my fellow autistic people.
The quality of conventional recruiters can vary wildly. I’ve dealt with both actual pieces of shit recruiters (the kind that try outright guilt tripping and manipulation) and some amazing ones.
Sure, that’s the same I have experienced but the argument I was making is that it’s not going to be worse if you train AI to especially target ND folks. It’s probably going to be worse than the good recruiters and better than the worst.
You do realise that’s going to be a metric fuckton harder than targeting neurotypicals, right? Like, bordering on impossible.
The clue is in the D of ND. To put it another way, let’s forget the entire spectrum of ND for a second and focus on ASD.
You not only need to train your AI on every possible interaction quirk an ASD person can have, such as trigger phrases to avoid and jobs they absolutely will not be able to do, you need it to be adaptable such that it can be useful to high functioning ASDers who can mask, to low functiiners that may not be able to leave the house but can maybe do some light computing work, and everywhere in between. And you need it to be able to detect which one it is dealing with.
That’s an impossible task, because the exact combination of issues, quirks, triggers, etc, are often very rare, if not completely unique.
But surely the AI can learn what the quirks of an individual are, right? Nope. AI learning relies on large datasets to do its work. Datasets that will not exist for all except the most common of issues and quirks. The most an AI can do is avoid a given topic when asked.
Now extrapolate that to the entire ND community. Good luck.
I understand your point. It’s correct that we do not know (neither do we need to) how their supposed AI works. It could be a mess, it could be no actual AI at all, many different possibilities.
But I think you might be missing my point here: as someone who is gifted and autistic (and traumatized due to both facts), I can absolutely build you a multi million dollar company (have done so in the past), but I can’t deal with bullying. A practical negation of my skills if I don’t design my environment in a very particular way.
This is just an example of a skilled individual that gets disabled by reality and nearly needs lab conditions (highly controlled) to work but then does tremendously well.
One of my personal (and supposedly that of others too) problem starts at recruiting. I can’t tell you what I‘m good at if asked but I can show you. I assume that a lot of people on the spectrum work this way and a change, albeit with infamous AI in the mix, is highly welcome.
Completely focusing on the AI component massively feels like a „I don’t have this problem so I don’t want it fixed“ type of thinking.
I think you might be the one that’s misunderstanding my point. Or the scope of what is being proposed here.
My point is not an objection to other methods being out there but a realistic look at what is being proposed here.
I am also autistic. I have met other autistic people that are high functioning like myself, even in social situations, I have met some that are completely debilitated by noise but are otherwise perfectly capable people, I have met some that are non verbal but can work a computer like a prodigy, and I’ve met one who will straight up never be able to have even a semi normal life.
Want to know what the common threads between them are? Beyond an ASD diagnosis, not a lot. One person’s fixation is another person’s trigger, one’s need for white noise is another’s audial hellscape. AI has difficulty navigating neurotypical behaviour, despite the latter having the most research behind it, never mind neurodiversity. And a mis step can lead to a trigger or a meltdown.
So yeah, there isn’t really a one-size-fits-all approach. When bringing it outside to include more than just ASD, you’re going to find it hard to find even a one-size-fits-most approach. You kinda need that if you want to make a scalable online service.
Without AI the situation is already bad. With AI the situation might improve or not but blanket denying it makes no sense to me.
Because you cannot solve complex problems with buzzwords. Saying AI can fix it is like saying crypto can fix it.
AI is a very useful tool. To make the best use of it, you need to understand how it works and what it’s shortcomings can be.
In this situation, you’re going to constantly run head-first into AI’s biggest weaknesses: the quality of the output program is shit when there isn’t good data.
Without AI the situation is already bad. With AI the situation might improve or not but blanket denying it makes no sense to me.
How, theoretically, would an AI recruiter actually help in your situation? Remember it’s still only a recruiter; you’ll have to go through interviews anyway with human beings.
Also, we dont use the term „high functioning“ anymore since it is putting people into boxes.
If you had read the website instead of fighting me, you would know that they are asking questions like „what situations spike your anxiety“ and „what are your strongest interests“.
AI is not the main feature. The main feature is understanding ND folks and their differences.
What is the preferred term?
There is none afaik. We‘re autistic. Some of us are gifted, others have learning disabilities and others again have neither of those. The idea imo is that a severely learning disabled autistic person and a gifted autistic person could stand in for eachother instead of being divided by words since they share the base condition.
There is none afaik. We‘re autistic. Some of us are gifted, others have learning disabilities and others again have neither of those. The idea imo is that a severely learning disabled autistic person and a gifted autistic person could stand in for eachother instead of being divided by words since they share the base condition.
While I understand the sentiment…that’s a massive messaging failure, especially when you’re representing a group of people that largely already have issues communicating.
Labels don’t just exist to bully people. They exist to get ideas across effectively. NTs rely on labelling for quick and effective communication, so if you don’t have accepted ones… they’ll make their own, with your permission or not. And you may not like what they come up with.
We’d be better off taking a page from the LGBT playbook here. They have their accepted labels for identifying pretty much every offshoot there is, in the service of quickly communicating the idea. Like when you hear someone is gay, you know they’re a guy that’s into men, or depending on context, a woman that’s into other women, etc.
We could have non derogatory labels for people who can live independently, those that might have hearing sensitivity considerations, those that need a bit more help, etc. It would actually do wonders when we talk about our autism to NTs. It would do away with a lot of the harmful stereotypes and myths too.
The quality of conventional recruiters can vary wildly. I’ve dealt with both actual pieces of shit recruiters (the kind that try outright guilt tripping and manipulation) and some amazing ones.
Sure, that’s the same I have experienced but the argument I was making is that it’s not going to be worse if you train AI to especially target ND folks. It’s probably going to be worse than the good recruiters and better than the worst.
You do realise that’s going to be a metric fuckton harder than targeting neurotypicals, right? Like, bordering on impossible.
The clue is in the D of ND. To put it another way, let’s forget the entire spectrum of ND for a second and focus on ASD.
You not only need to train your AI on every possible interaction quirk an ASD person can have, such as trigger phrases to avoid and jobs they absolutely will not be able to do, you need it to be adaptable such that it can be useful to high functioning ASDers who can mask, to low functiiners that may not be able to leave the house but can maybe do some light computing work, and everywhere in between. And you need it to be able to detect which one it is dealing with.
That’s an impossible task, because the exact combination of issues, quirks, triggers, etc, are often very rare, if not completely unique.
But surely the AI can learn what the quirks of an individual are, right? Nope. AI learning relies on large datasets to do its work. Datasets that will not exist for all except the most common of issues and quirks. The most an AI can do is avoid a given topic when asked.
Now extrapolate that to the entire ND community. Good luck.
I understand your point. It’s correct that we do not know (neither do we need to) how their supposed AI works. It could be a mess, it could be no actual AI at all, many different possibilities.
But I think you might be missing my point here: as someone who is gifted and autistic (and traumatized due to both facts), I can absolutely build you a multi million dollar company (have done so in the past), but I can’t deal with bullying. A practical negation of my skills if I don’t design my environment in a very particular way.
This is just an example of a skilled individual that gets disabled by reality and nearly needs lab conditions (highly controlled) to work but then does tremendously well.
One of my personal (and supposedly that of others too) problem starts at recruiting. I can’t tell you what I‘m good at if asked but I can show you. I assume that a lot of people on the spectrum work this way and a change, albeit with infamous AI in the mix, is highly welcome.
Completely focusing on the AI component massively feels like a „I don’t have this problem so I don’t want it fixed“ type of thinking.
Does this make sense to you?
I think you might be the one that’s misunderstanding my point. Or the scope of what is being proposed here.
My point is not an objection to other methods being out there but a realistic look at what is being proposed here.
I am also autistic. I have met other autistic people that are high functioning like myself, even in social situations, I have met some that are completely debilitated by noise but are otherwise perfectly capable people, I have met some that are non verbal but can work a computer like a prodigy, and I’ve met one who will straight up never be able to have even a semi normal life.
Want to know what the common threads between them are? Beyond an ASD diagnosis, not a lot. One person’s fixation is another person’s trigger, one’s need for white noise is another’s audial hellscape. AI has difficulty navigating neurotypical behaviour, despite the latter having the most research behind it, never mind neurodiversity. And a mis step can lead to a trigger or a meltdown.
So yeah, there isn’t really a one-size-fits-all approach. When bringing it outside to include more than just ASD, you’re going to find it hard to find even a one-size-fits-most approach. You kinda need that if you want to make a scalable online service.
I got your point right from the beginning. I just don’t think it makes any difference. And I dont feel like you’re trying to get mine as well.
Without AI the situation is already bad. With AI the situation might improve or not but blanket denying it makes no sense to me.
Also, we dont use the term „high functioning“ anymore since it is putting people into boxes. Source: https://www.telethonkids.org.au/news--events/news-and-events-nav/2019/june/researchers-call-for-term-high-functioning-autism/#:~:text=Autism researchers from the Telethon,children on the autism spectrum.
Because you cannot solve complex problems with buzzwords. Saying AI can fix it is like saying crypto can fix it.
AI is a very useful tool. To make the best use of it, you need to understand how it works and what it’s shortcomings can be.
In this situation, you’re going to constantly run head-first into AI’s biggest weaknesses: the quality of the output program is shit when there isn’t good data.
How, theoretically, would an AI recruiter actually help in your situation? Remember it’s still only a recruiter; you’ll have to go through interviews anyway with human beings.
What is the preferred term?
If you had read the website instead of fighting me, you would know that they are asking questions like „what situations spike your anxiety“ and „what are your strongest interests“.
AI is not the main feature. The main feature is understanding ND folks and their differences.
There is none afaik. We‘re autistic. Some of us are gifted, others have learning disabilities and others again have neither of those. The idea imo is that a severely learning disabled autistic person and a gifted autistic person could stand in for eachother instead of being divided by words since they share the base condition.
While I understand the sentiment…that’s a massive messaging failure, especially when you’re representing a group of people that largely already have issues communicating.
Labels don’t just exist to bully people. They exist to get ideas across effectively. NTs rely on labelling for quick and effective communication, so if you don’t have accepted ones… they’ll make their own, with your permission or not. And you may not like what they come up with.
We’d be better off taking a page from the LGBT playbook here. They have their accepted labels for identifying pretty much every offshoot there is, in the service of quickly communicating the idea. Like when you hear someone is gay, you know they’re a guy that’s into men, or depending on context, a woman that’s into other women, etc.
We could have non derogatory labels for people who can live independently, those that might have hearing sensitivity considerations, those that need a bit more help, etc. It would actually do wonders when we talk about our autism to NTs. It would do away with a lot of the harmful stereotypes and myths too.