• SpiderFarmer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Someone came in with a rookie question and there’s some great answers with a lot of upvotes. I’ve heard the deprogram subreddit can be chaos, but this isn’t one of those cases.

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netOP
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      1 year ago

      It’s also reflected in Top 40 hiphop. They had Tupac in the 90s talking about Lenin and hiphop was not as commodified for white consumption. I like Kendrick but I’m not so sure he’s as revolutionary as hiphop used to be.

      For every comment correctly identifying the true cause being LEADERS ARE BEING MURDERED BY THE STATE, you got dummies talking about how it’s because Kendrick isn’t revolutionary enough

      • MaoTheLawn [any, any]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        It’s that, but it’s also that relative to the 80’s and 90’s, America has gotten less racist (actually and symbolically). It’s a very low bar, but it’s always shocking looking at media from those times and seeing the shit people used to not even bat an eyelid at on TV. A time before widespread bodycam use (yes, I know, there’s still a lot of dodgy bodycam business), before every citizen had a camera in their pocket, before the news would spread like wildfire on the internet, or a video of some professor saying the N word, or whatever.

        America is an incredibly racist place, and the system - laws, media, whatever - has undoubtedly done their best to dismantle black radicalism, but America has also got to a point where it is less justifiable than it was to have an armed militia in the name of civil rights. The police are bad now, but they used to be magnitudes worse.

        It’s the same reason we don’t have radicalism in general anymore - the usual factors like repression and surveillance, but also because many of us have our needs just about sated, and have the illusion of free speech. Conditions necessitate militia style resistance - the conditions currently do not necessitate such a thing (to the wider population).

        As soon as the imperial profit tap runs dry, living conditions will go down, people rise up - as soon as the state represses them as severely as they used to, the time of militias will be born again.

      • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        There’s just a barrier for entry here where white leftists are only familiar with the surface level history (the rap beefs, which albums Fantano told them to like, etc) without knowing the ties between hip hop and the Black radical tradition and how the CIA killed Tupac. Due to the subreddit’s demographics it’s gonna be hard for that part of the history to reach the top and people remain in the surface level, incapable of synthesizing a coherent theory.

  • JustSo [she/her, any]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Gotta remember that random redditor might be 12 years old and just learned about the BPP yesterday.

    In a way maybe it’s a testament to the deprogram podcast for reaching people who clearly haven’t done much homework but are curious.

    I’m being very generous with these interpretations of course. That is such a dweeb ass question to ask.

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      yeah it’s phrased ignorantly and people are reacting to that appropriately but it is good to ask why there hasn’t been anything quite like the bpp since then and the answer is mostly the government killing people who would build it.

      • JustSo [she/her, any]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Yeah for real. Like all the BLM protestor organisers who shot themselves in the back and set their cars on fire after they died, they stand as a stark reminder that this oppression is current and active and until a certain tipping point is reached or a critical mass of people ready to die on their feet find each other, of course people are going to keep their heads down and focus on survival and providing for their families.

        Plus like, the entire legal landscape changed in response to the BPP in its most active areas and presumably where a lot of the surviving family members are still based. You can’t just march around with guns and stand off with the police anymore unless you’re a psyop org. You’d just get massacred and the majority of the population would see it as a reasonable response. Fuck that, I can’t imagine the frustration felt by the people who would join a modern BPP movement but instead have to operate quietly in their neighbourhood self defense efforts.

        Like I’m white and not from America, I can’t put myself in those shoes, but I can only imagine how incredibly miserable it would be to stay actively engaged with politics while living with the legacy of the earlier movements being so brutally repressed. The experiment was tried and it unfortunately failed, at least twice now, so any new movement has to be something new and adapted to the current material conditions etc.

  • Moss [they/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    that sub is definitely overall a net positive but i dont think anyone there reads theory. back in cth days we would bully people who didnt read theory. deprogram just bullies liberals on twitter

      • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        I think that the three of them attracted a much younger audience than they were aiming for, and they’ve kinda started trying to make things easier for that audience to understand (although that’s not exactly an excuse for Hakim who makes very historically-oriented stuff).

      • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Hakim’s quality definitely went downhill. When was the last time he released a book recommendation video? I also don’t like how his newer videos are just him recycling his older videos that he has hidden(?). I feel like the newer recycled videos has less info compared with the original older videos, but I don’t have them to compare.

  • Sulvor [he/him, undecided]@hexbear.netBanned
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    1 year ago

    wtf do you mean why don’t Black people organize? All the groups I’ve organized with, pro-Palestinian groups, tenant unions, SRA, have ALL had an over representation of Black people compared to local demographics.

    • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netOP
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      1 year ago

      The near 300 plus upvotes, also the comments under the comment you linked are dogshit culturalist nonsense

      That is seriously the problem. All black American idols are just capitalist scum, and consumer fetishism runs rampant in all poor communities, but particularly black ones. People like Killer Mike and JayZ are hailed as heroes for buying properties in their hoods just to charge exorbitant rent, further gentrifying their own community. Jayz literally rapped about doing just that and people love it.

      Rappers run black communities and black people are the most consumer obsessed demographic in America; stunning analysis, total mirror to reality and not the most white-brained reductive Bill Maher level take

      We’re five years out from the 2020 rebellions and “leftists” are still spitting out these condescending takes, incredible

        • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netOP
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          1 year ago

          What can we discern from that absent the original post?

          Why are we “absenting” the original post? 300 dipshits on a leftist sub upvoted a nasty post about black people, we’re not dealing with rocket science here and it certainly doesn’t require excuses

          More importantly though, you are taking a minority of the comments in the thread, with 1/10th of the number of upvotes as the top comment

          Yeah just a dozen highly upvoted comments in a leftist sub claiming the reason Black people aren’t radical or revolutionary is because of their consumer spending habits and too much “middle class” hip hop culture, no biggie, just normal things leftists assert for totally normal reasons

          and it’s going to experience stray idiots wandering in & saying dumb shit from time to time.

          Good thing I didn’t post about a random stray comment but instead a thread with hundreds of upvotes

          And yes it’s awesome plenty of folks saw thru the bullshit and responded appropriately, but it didn’t stop the post from blowing up and a dozen comments about bad hip hop influence springing out of the ground, hence the title “r/Deprogram having a normal one” raise your standards

        • FunkyStuff [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Come on, you don’t see that tier of racist crap everywhere. The mods are free to actually remove the comments. I appreciate that it’s never gonna be as good as Hexbear where we have a lot more control over site culture, but if your subreddit has hundreds of people hanging around that are happy with upvoting comments that are saying that Black people are sheep that follow rappers like drones you’ve done something wrong.

          • Kiagz [she/her]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            They’re also bad when it comes to the usage of a certain ableist slur. Reporting it to the mods does nothing, and you’ll just get downvoted to hell if you try to call them out on it.