cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/536902
During the brief time DroneRights was active on the site, DroneRights was treated, by default, in bad faith and as a wrecker, even by moderators. Very first post made by DroneRights, (where they reference their experiences as someone with NPD) First comment responding tells them to āfuck offā and that narcissist is not a slur. DroneRights defended how they feel narcissist is a slur, and then the next comment was āI have literally never heard or seen it used that way. Edit: new account, good trollā A statement that Thus begins the saga of DroneRights, and the half of the userbase that treats it like a troll that couldnāt possibly be real because what it talks about is nothing the users here have ever heard about. And just to be clear, ableist slurs are commonplace on this site. Incredibly common everyday words, phrases, and most intelligence or sanity-based insults come from medical words for disabilities. I would imagine a lot of users would be upset if ND users started insisting, we never used words like āstupidā, because they are so commonplace. But if someone with NPD tells you that using Narcissism as an insult is hurtful and dehumanizes those who have NPD, then donāt speak over them.
Now, DroneRights is an interesting user. I, like most of you, did not know much about anything DroneRights talked about in their posts. From how I see it, DroneRights has been ridiculed for their beliefs, its disabilities, and their gender since it started being open about its gender online. It tried talking about its experiences with neurodiversity and its gender on several instances before posting on hexbear at all, making a new account after being doxxed on their old one. Every instance treated DroneRights in bad faith, invalidated and belittled them, and it comes to hexbear where āwe love our trans neurodivergent comrades!!ā and it instantly gets treated like someone so unfamiliar and so unbelievable that DroneRights couldnāt possibly be real or valid.
This is the shit we have a thousand dunk tank threads about. Libs saying hexbear users are bots, or not really trans, or paid shills, anything they can say instead of doing some self-crit or considering the experiences of other people. Except now we are doing it, while claiming to be a welcoming, shining beacon of inclusivity. Now, even if you wrongly think DroneRights could not possibly be genuine in the posts it made, I would briefly like if the readers of this post looked at DroneRights post history for a moment, and interpret its posts giving the benefit of the doubt that should be given to someone with NPD, autism, a lack of communication skills, who does not fully understand left wing politics like you might. Take how it interprets its gender seriously, without assuming it is a troll. And look at how users on this site respond to what it says.
https://hexbear.net/u/DroneRights?page=1&sort=Old&view=Overview
Okay, assuming you looked for a little over 5 minutes, you have probably seen some hurtful exclusionary shit said to DroneRights out of bad faith assumptions. The mod log is similarly bad, if you believe that ND users shouldnāt be seen instantly as trolls or worthy of being banned for a couple bad takes, or for their communication problems. These takes are entirely understandable for DroneRights to have, given how it views itself as a non-person. Especially noteworthy, is how DroneRights post got removed and bad faith comments were made towards it (initially, got restored later) in the dedicated comm for neurodiversity, with rules dedicated to not making bad faith assumptions about other peoples experiences. In The rest of the site without those rules, it faced constant ridicule and mistreatment. Saying DroneRights had ābad, wrecker vibesā without attempting to understand them is ableist, and so is labeling DroneRights as a wrecker when its actions could easily be interpreted as a good faith ND user who isnāt quite as aware of Marxist theory unlike other users. Even if for some reason some bad faith troll decided to learn and lie about the experiences DroneRights has had with its gender and how its NPD has changed how it views itself, the normal standards of engagement on this site should not be one where ND users, and users in general should be invalidated like that. Now, the problem of ableism and bad faith assumptions about posts is a very complicated one. Let me first address our site culture of struggle sessions, hostility, and bad faith assumptions. Threads frequently devolve into arguments and dogpiling, often on established users who make comments or posts with no intention of rudeness. The solution to this problem of hostility by hexbear? Donāt talk about it. If drama is brought up, even if its very important or relevant to the site, it is removed. There used to be containment comms in UserUnion and c/Strugglesession. They got removed about three months ago. I never heard about any new place to talk about the site, the code of conduct still tells users to post at userunion, so unless a user looks a little harder and tries to find whatever comm āmetaā posts are allowed in, criticism looks purposefully ignored. A cool soviet propaganda poster once said, āKill it at the Root.ā Most struggle sessions either wouldnāt have happened, or been a lot less toxic, if there were sitewide rules saying that āif a user posts something that seems unintentionally harmful or reactionary, ask them what they meant by that comment. Donāt immediately go on the attack. Behave in good faith, and donāt assume the worst from posters by default ā
Now, this potential solution obviously increases moderator workload and would make genuine ill-intentioned trolls harder to get rid of, but compared to previous moderation policies, if implemented properly, it would give many users the safe, welcoming space they desire from the site. Now, Hexbear itself has had a rocky start, with issues of inclusivity and toxicity since the beginning. The solution for the past few years? Ban anyone you can label as a liberal! I donāt really have an issue with the initial ban of those labeled transphobic. Were some well-intentioned ND users banned in the process? Probably. But the site is much better without blatant transphobia. The issue is that the policy of banning on the pretenses of āseems like a liberalā or āhas a take I donāt agree withā is really only fitting on clear, black and white issues like trans rights. Now, admittedly, a lot of left wing issues are black and white, but not all of them are, and having a bad take on an issue or believing in common misconceptions doesnāt mean a user is malicious or harmful, and the policy of banning āsusā accounts over not having all the facts or not communicating properly is actively communicating that the policy is: that it is ok to ban ND users regularly and make it so those who donāt get banned are constantly worried about it, as long as it gets rid of liberals. When you say āEmbrace TC69 thoughtā what you are advocating for is sacrificing good faith users and the ND community so that liberals are banned quicker. Of course, Iām not the first person to criticize the site on this. Two or so years ago, the site had a lively and welcoming Neurodiverse mod team dedicated to making their comm a great place for ND users to talk, but with the siteās constant hostility, struggle sessions, ND users often got unjustly banned outside of the comm, and those who did not felt like they could be banned at any moment without understanding what they did wrong. When ND users and the mod team representing them asked for users to be unbanned or for site policy to change to be more inclusive to ND users, they were frequently not being listened to. After around a year of moderating and advocating for ND users, (often with no results), an incident where a well-known user made an āIām leaving postā targeted at an ND user who criticized them. The user was immediately banned, the ND mod team had to fight hard to convince the mod team that they didnāt deserve to be immediately banned for a tiny incident that was not intended to be hurtful, and after convincing the mods to unban the user, they were promptly re-banned by another site mod with no explanation given, and the consequences of that event and the feelings of mistreatment by the mod team prior in combination with that, led to most of the ND team leaving the site completely. The comm has seemingly had little to no leadership since in the past 2 years, and this important history of the site is largely forgotten about.
ND users need a voice, and ableism needs to be discussed and acknowledged to be a problem in this community. Discussion on ableism or ND inclusivity on the Neurodiverse comm should not be removed, especially if the conversation is civil.
[@Egon@hexbear.net](https://hexbear.net/u/Egon
Has expressed a desire for tone indicators like /s to be normalized and encouraged on the site, which I would agree with. Having /s and other tone indicators would help users with interpreting comments in they way they are intended, and /s being from reddit is not a good enough reason to not use it.
As for what I want to see from the site to be more inclusive to ND users, rules such as āāif a user posts something that seems unintentionally harmful or reactionary, ask them what they meant by that comment. Donāt immediately go on the attack. Behave in good faith, and donāt assume the worst from posters by default āand ādo not talk over ND comrades about things you have not experiencedā are rules I would want to be enforced site wide.
The most important thing is to acknowledge these issues in our community and address them. Inclusivity of ND comrades should be just as important as other issues the site makes a priority. If one of the main concerns with our site is losing the safe space that hexbear has.
Iām new to Hexbear so I donāt think that I have much say in the site itself, like moderation or culture and what have you, so I intentionally avoid contributing in these respects because I donāt feel as though itās my place to waltz into someone elseās house and start dictating my tastes in interior design, so to speak.
I guess in some ways Iām quite lucky because I got the āgood at language and cultureā flavour of autism instead of the āgood at maths/codingā flavour of autism (although sometimes I wish I had the other way around) and that means that Iām much better at camoflauging and integrating into in-group cultures than I would otherwise be, at least the majority of the time.
While I have to admit that my use of language is still characterised by tepid ableism because I havenāt done enough work to really purge the more socially-acceptable forms of ableist tropes that I invoke, and I appreciate the call to accountability, I just wanted to say that what you said about people jumping to conclusions about things that I have said and especially choosing not to seek clarification about what I have said resonates with me. Iām precise with my language to the point of being borderline obsessive because of the cumulative effect of all the social rejection I have faced for being misinterpreted and having my meanings or my intentions mischaracterised, and even then itās often in vain because ātoneā represents so much more than just the sum total of your choice of words.
Often it feels like Iām performing an intricate dance with my phrasing to ensure that Iām not only conveying my message precisely but that my wording canāt be turned around and used against me/what I had intended to say and this mental labour is really taxing and it makes social engagement really difficult for me.
I guess I just wanted to contribute my own personal experience to give some insight into what it can be like for neurodivergent people to experience a world in which they are often vilified for what they didnāt say or for using the wrong inflection or not providing enough of the right facial expressions at the right moments etc. etc.
It can be downright crushing to face the world when you know that youāre going to be held accountable for someone elseās interpretation of your words and the more you try to explain your intentions and your meaning, the more you are perceived to be trying to justify yourself and the more you are intepreted as being combative.
Thereās a reason why autistic people often experience verbal shutdowns (i.e. āselectiveā mutism) and I think a large part of that is by facing the seemingly impossible situation where words get you into trouble with people and the more you talk, the deeper a hole it digs for you despite your best intentions. Of course, not responding is also an implicit admission of culpability and so youāre left in a double-bind where itās easier to just disengage and avoid socialising entirely.
And this is all coming from a personal who is gifted when it comes to language and culture. I canāt imagine what it would be like if I didnāt have the skills that I do in this respect.
TL;DR: Thereās a reason why The Stranger by Camus is one of my favourite books
fun fact, you can actually have both.
iām really glad to know itās not just me
I mean, coding is just another language as is mathematics (in a certain sense) so that tracks.
On the other hand, this fact aggravates my constant feelings of inadequacy lol.
if it makes you feel any better, i also am so burned out that i canāt be employed or touch grass rn. also, if youāre here, you donāt actually need to know the details of how āAIā works (for example) to know why itās a grift.
I just made a post about some of these issues as well. Your writing about how you use hyper-precise language really resonates with me as well. I find myself rehearsing speech and getting very frustrated when I canāt find the exact perfect word to convey my meaning, because I hate being misunderstood and then attacked over it. Itās very frustrating when even my most precise words are misconstrued because someone didnāt like the ātoneā or finds some other such āfaultā with my words that wasnāt intended.
I have seen this happen, and once or twice I have experienced it, and itās infuriating lol