Only his people and his army… funded by NATO countries. I’m sorry but you can’t act like you’ve been getting no support here. Ukraine would be a Russian puppet state right now if it weren’t for foreign aid.
He said only our troops and army, when it’s actually their troops and army and a boatload of financial and equipment support from NATO countries. To the point we’re only talking about this because one of those countries elected a syphilitic cheeto who wants to make a deal to get something in return for continuing to fund their ongoing war, mostly because shutting off that funding serves his master, aka Putin.
He undercuts his own point by not acknowledging the reality of the situation. It is a mistake not to mention the crucial role NATO has played in Ukraine’s defense.
They stopped the Russian advance on their own, long before any shipments of weapons arrived.
The fact they’ve been able to hold out this long against a numerically superior foe is indeed due to massive support from other countries. But if they hadn’t held the line in the beginning, alone, there wouldn’t have been anyone to support.
I won’t ever look down on them. They spilled the blood and cried the tears. All we did was throw them a bunch of surplus shit we didn’t need anymore, so that our MIC can sell us newer shit.
Don’t tell me what I’m trying to do. This is ridiculous. You can say it seemed like that’s what I was trying to do, or that you misunderstood me. But respectfully, fuck off with that.
I know what I meant and what I said. Zelensky did not make an effective argument. That’s where the conversation ends. No looking down on anyone.
I’m tired of not being able to voice even the slightest bit of a disagreement with zelensky just because his country was invaded.
Every single time people just assume I’m anti Ukraine, because they can’t fathom the idea I would criticize something that I overall agree with. Its fucking ridiculous.
I’d say Ukraine has played a far greater role in Ukraine’s defense. Not to mention that Ukraine is body-blocking Russia from NATO countries while doing so. Putin won’t stop in Ukraine and they fucking know it.
Regardless, Ukraine wouldn’t still exist in the form it does now without NATO’s support. That is a simple fact, it cannot be argued. My point has nothing to do with what Ukraine has or hasn’t done, or what NATO should or should not be doing.
Literally all I have said is that Zelensky did not describe the situation well. Im not even trying to use this as an indicator of his character or intelligence as a leader. This isn’t a hot take, it really doesn’t deserve this much discussion.
Literally all I have said is that Zelensky did not describe the situation well.
Just to be clear then, it was a NATO country, with NATO troops that stopped Russia? Because he described it as 'Ukraine’s army that stopped Russia–not a NATO country, not NATO troops, but our people and army."
He undercuts his own point by not acknowledging the reality of the situation.
The reality that… Ukrainian troops and the Ukrainian army are fighting Russia, who will immediately attack NATO countries if they beat Ukraine? If you believe Putin that they’ll stop in Ukraine I have a bridge I think you’ll love, $99.99. And if you think NATO doesn’t know that and isn’t using Ukraine as a buffer, I’ll throw in a nice little island for $49.99.
Because he described it as 'Ukraine’s army that stopped Russia–not a NATO country, not NATO troops, but our people and army."
He said ONLY our people and our army. That is incorrect. Russia was stopped by the Ukrainian people using equipment and money given to them by NATO countries. That is the reality he did not acknowledge.
And again, I never said anything about what NATO should or should not be doing. That is a different conversation entirely.
Yeah, I have the utmost respect for what Ukraine has done. They have stood firm and paid a heavy price for it. It simply wouldn’t have been possible without the massive amount of funding and weapon donations though and I think they need to be diplomatically careful. It’s likely that the USA is preparing to throw them under the bus so will be relying on the rest of NATO for continued support. I’m not sure diminishing their contributions (while there is internal right wing/Russian pressure) is the best strategy.
He knows, and we know he knows.
He needs to look strong and we don’t need him to lessen his position or dilute his message to assuage our pride or some shit.
Jesus, it’s like you fucking gave money to their Kickstarter and are whining coz you didn’t get your credit yet. Can you wait till Ukraine has won at least?
This is the leader of a country, not a professional wrestler. He doesn’t need to look like anything. He needs to be careful how he negotiates, to obtain as much aid as he can. I don’t think you do that by acting like you’ve been given nothing, when the continued existence of your nation hinges entirely on the support of NATO.
Only his people and his army… funded by NATO countries. I’m sorry but you can’t act like you’ve been getting no support here. Ukraine would be a Russian puppet state right now if it weren’t for foreign aid.
Yes, that is why he said troops and army. Other countries didn’t lose any people when they provided money and equipment.
He is making a solid point, no need to undercut it.
He said only our troops and army, when it’s actually their troops and army and a boatload of financial and equipment support from NATO countries. To the point we’re only talking about this because one of those countries elected a syphilitic cheeto who wants to make a deal to get something in return for continuing to fund their ongoing war, mostly because shutting off that funding serves his master, aka Putin.
He undercuts his own point by not acknowledging the reality of the situation. It is a mistake not to mention the crucial role NATO has played in Ukraine’s defense.
They stopped the Russian advance on their own, long before any shipments of weapons arrived.
The fact they’ve been able to hold out this long against a numerically superior foe is indeed due to massive support from other countries. But if they hadn’t held the line in the beginning, alone, there wouldn’t have been anyone to support.
I won’t ever look down on them. They spilled the blood and cried the tears. All we did was throw them a bunch of surplus shit we didn’t need anymore, so that our MIC can sell us newer shit.
I’m not in any way trying to “look down on” Ukraine. I am criticizing a statement because I believe it wasn’t an effective way to make an argument.
Yes, you are trying to look down on Ukraine by focusing so hard on material suppllies over human lives.
Don’t tell me what I’m trying to do. This is ridiculous. You can say it seemed like that’s what I was trying to do, or that you misunderstood me. But respectfully, fuck off with that.
I know what I meant and what I said. Zelensky did not make an effective argument. That’s where the conversation ends. No looking down on anyone.
I’m tired of not being able to voice even the slightest bit of a disagreement with zelensky just because his country was invaded.
Every single time people just assume I’m anti Ukraine, because they can’t fathom the idea I would criticize something that I overall agree with. Its fucking ridiculous.
Keep digging that hole!
I’d say Ukraine has played a far greater role in Ukraine’s defense. Not to mention that Ukraine is body-blocking Russia from NATO countries while doing so. Putin won’t stop in Ukraine and they fucking know it.
Regardless, Ukraine wouldn’t still exist in the form it does now without NATO’s support. That is a simple fact, it cannot be argued. My point has nothing to do with what Ukraine has or hasn’t done, or what NATO should or should not be doing.
Literally all I have said is that Zelensky did not describe the situation well. Im not even trying to use this as an indicator of his character or intelligence as a leader. This isn’t a hot take, it really doesn’t deserve this much discussion.
Just to be clear then, it was a NATO country, with NATO troops that stopped Russia? Because he described it as 'Ukraine’s army that stopped Russia–not a NATO country, not NATO troops, but our people and army."
The reality that… Ukrainian troops and the Ukrainian army are fighting Russia, who will immediately attack NATO countries if they beat Ukraine? If you believe Putin that they’ll stop in Ukraine I have a bridge I think you’ll love, $99.99. And if you think NATO doesn’t know that and isn’t using Ukraine as a buffer, I’ll throw in a nice little island for $49.99.
He said ONLY our people and our army. That is incorrect. Russia was stopped by the Ukrainian people using equipment and money given to them by NATO countries. That is the reality he did not acknowledge.
And again, I never said anything about what NATO should or should not be doing. That is a different conversation entirely.
Yeah, I have the utmost respect for what Ukraine has done. They have stood firm and paid a heavy price for it. It simply wouldn’t have been possible without the massive amount of funding and weapon donations though and I think they need to be diplomatically careful. It’s likely that the USA is preparing to throw them under the bus so will be relying on the rest of NATO for continued support. I’m not sure diminishing their contributions (while there is internal right wing/Russian pressure) is the best strategy.
He knows, and we know he knows.
He needs to look strong and we don’t need him to lessen his position or dilute his message to assuage our pride or some shit.
Jesus, it’s like you fucking gave money to their Kickstarter and are whining coz you didn’t get your credit yet. Can you wait till Ukraine has won at least?
This is the leader of a country, not a professional wrestler. He doesn’t need to look like anything. He needs to be careful how he negotiates, to obtain as much aid as he can. I don’t think you do that by acting like you’ve been given nothing, when the continued existence of your nation hinges entirely on the support of NATO.