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I think there is a generaal consensus to say it’s not ARC
great point
Still Firefox. Every time Mozilla does anything the entire privacy community goes insane. The terms of use they published seem entirely benign, and the only thing anyone can actually point to is the “direction being worrisome”. Well, I’ll get worried when they update the terms to be actually onerous. Everything even possibly annoying can be disabled, and it’s still the only browser engine offering competition against Chrome ruling the web.
Zen Browser I love it :)
I moved to LibreWolf back when Mozilla announced AI features
I appreciate its privacy-focused approach
Been using zen for a few days with ublock, no issues so far but I might go back to librewolf soon even though it feels less modern. It just feels safer, idk tbh
Firefox. Google removed a valuable addon from their store without justifiable reason and kept it removed because there’s not sufficient backlash.
The addon is AdNauseam. It’s an improvement on uBlock Origin that clicks ads in addition to hiding them.
Librewolf & waterfox are fantastic. Zen is interesting but it takes some work if you are used to firefox/Librewolf. Ladybird isn’t out yet 🫠
Firefox with Arkenfox. I’m not going to help the Chromium monopoly. The changes suck, but oh the hell well.
Zen as main driver because of its features that are on par with Chromium-based Vivaldi browser, and LibreWolf on “older” machines or systems that require stability/consistency. Both are awesome to me. On Android plain Firefox remains pleasant to use, but open to suggestions.
Myself i run “Firedragon” which is a fork of floorp. As for why its mostly because it came with the distro i run (garuda linux) and it works nicely so i didnt really feel i had to swap it.
Firefox. Read the new statements on their website and the Full diff of the pull request. Not concerned at all.
Edit: pumped for ladybird, but its gonna be a few years until that is finished
Same. I’m not worried, just confused by the new language. It seems unnecessary, but I could end up being flat wrong.
I wish Mozilla would refocus on improving Firefox instead of the AI nonsense they’ve pursued lately. They havent been perfect, but if i’m going to give any faceless entity the benefit of the doubt, it’s Mozilla.
That said, i want the forks to thrive. Librewolf is pretty good. I might check out Pale Moon again to see what has(n’t) changed.
Waterfox is also good from what i remember. I used a build of it with KDE global menu support on OpenSuse for years, and i was happy with it the whole time.
RIP TenFourFox. Hopefully a new fork will emerge for powerpc and other retro computers
I read the new language to mean: they are going to record your input streams and feed them to AI/LLM - thereby recording your previously private info that they used to discard and protect. Up to you, I use Chrome because it integrates well with the gmail account I’ve used for 25+ years and I appreciate the “login anywhere and get your same setup” functionality, as well as the ability to nuke remote login sessions.
Mostly fennec (firefox) on android but there are concerning news every half year about firefox. No idea how long I can withstand.
Vanadium is my alternative but it has no (good) browser tab overview (list instead of huge squares). And bottom navigation is sub par as well. Brave would be better in that regard but vanadium is rock solid.
As soon as firefox drops ublock, I’m out. For me, that day is still far away, but I guess it’s inevitable. You can’t trust firefox not chaning their path anymore. :'( .
I’m a Firefox user and I’m not really that bothered about this tos changes. If they do mess things up I’ll probably just switch to some fork that doesn’t do the fuckery.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Mint packages Firefox with it (whatever “it” is) disabled, since they build Thunderbird without telemetry.
Practical response.
I use Firefox. I don’t like the changes but I don’t want to use any downstream browsers and I don’t think any of the not-downstream alternatives do better.
They are better in most of the case, Firefox only is not that good…
Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t really see how they can be better beyond philosophical reasons.
I guess bringing back stuff like the proper dropdown menu we had in the 2000s would be an example, but I don’t expect most of them to do something like that.
I expect most of them to have some kind of gimmick that isn’t relevant to how I use a web browser.
Privacy, simply better, better anti-fingerprinting. Sure you can do it with stock Firefox but it’s just simpler to have a pre-hardened browser
What privacy and fingerprinting concerns are there with Firefox?
simply better
Lol. That’s not a reason, ya goof.
Explore the Arkenfox user.js and you’ll see all things that can be improved in Firefox
I’m good.
I just don’t care for downstream projects on browsers, with software so critical I want to get the updates in as fast as possible. I know some of those mentioned in OP had issues with that in the past. And not much reason to anyway for me to switch, Firefox works perfectly fine for me, so there’s not much added benefit.
I share your general reasoning (about staying with Firefox). Except this:
Firefox works perfectly fine for me, so there’s not much added benefit
The added benefit of going with one of the downstream forks is that you can be sure they’re not gonna pull some new monetization trick next month. That does count for something.
BUT, again, I share your concerns about security, that’s why I’ll likely stay with Firefox till the end.
The added benefit of going with one of the downstream forks is that you can be sure they’re not gonna pull some new monetization trick next month. That does count for something.
It doesn’t count for much, if they do that I can just switch then.
Yes, that’s my thinking. For now it’s acceptable.
Let’s hope it doesn’t get much worse than this. The direction is pretty alarming.
Understand your point of view but in fact the 2 problems you mentioned are mainly not problems :
1 - Updates? The main downstream browsers received updates the same time as Firefox the same day and sometime the same hour
2 - Benefits? The benefits are mainly under the hood, removing Mozilla telemetry and annoying features (account, pocket…) AND the biggest advantages are the gain in term of privacy due the increase of anti fingerprinting methods
But who’s making these “updates”? Who’s doing the actual work of keeping the software secure? Mozilla is.
If everybody moves to a free-riding fork, Mozilla goes to 0% and there will be no browser let alone updates.
This needs to be higher up. We need firefox as an alternative to a chrome engine monopoly. ToS and telemetry are miniscule issues compared to what we are up against
Firefox is literally the last thing standing between google controlling the entire browser landscape and having control over all web standards (as if they dont already have too much influence)
People ditching firefox over tos, telemetry, AI, CEO pay, etc. are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Do i wish mozilla would stop doing stupid shit? Of course. But the alternative is far worse. Dont let perfect be the enemy of good. Mozilla will never be as ideologically pure as we want them to be, but that’s OK (for now)
Depends on which way the Firefox ditchers jump - jumping to Chrome, yeah… not great. Jumping to more privacy respecting options… it’s your data, you should be able to choose (if you care…)
You’re right but first don’t worry the biggest part of people use stock Firefox and secondly Firefox stock is just not as private as a fork
The biggest part of people use Chrome-based browsers.
Also… the point is that it’s thanks to those people who use stock Firefox that the codebase stays maintained. So admitting that having those people is a good thing is kind of against the idea of encouraging people to move away from stock Firefox.
To an extent, the enshittification of the most popular platform is inevitable.
Even when using forks of Firefox you are contributing to the Mozilla project and can support it as well Using librewolf is better than using chrome in term of support for the main devs Mozilla
How is a hobbyist fork of Firefox selling your data and slurping up whatever they want from the browser? People use forks because the company’s telemetry and data collection are often removed from the fork.
That’s what I said
Updates? The main downstream browsers received updates the same time as Firefox the same day and sometime the same hour
I’m not sure if something has changed, but due to changes they’ve made, at least before they couldn’t ship out the updates until they made it so that the updates actually affect their changed codebase. Which understandably causes delays. So there’d always be this delay with something being fixed on Firefox and then being fixed on the downstream projects.
Surely there will be some delay but not that much, for most updates the fixes are transplanted directly to the downstream project making the patches coming very fast, almost as fast as the original project
I’ve just soured on them from when there has been issues. Some security patches took a while because of the changed codebase. Good if that doesn’t happen anymore though.
Should retry it and make your own decision
librewolf for a while now. can reccomend 👍🏿
