I think a material difference between Iraq (v2 anyway) and Ukraine is that they can keep doing the “well Russia was the aggressor” thing indefinitely even if the reality is more complicated.

also yes obviously some libs are still stubborn about Iraq, the worst ones, but for the most part its generally agreed that the Iraq War was a bad thing.

  • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    revolutionary defeatism is for use against imperialists, not anti-imperialists combatting the world hegemonic empire. If I was in Syria I would be fighting for Assad. If I were in Iraq during US invasion I would be fighting for Saddam. If I were in Libya, I would fight for Gaddafi. The right to resist imperialism supersedes all else, it’s the primary contradiction.

    • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Most MLs I have spoken to think revolutionairy defeatism absolutely applies to Russia and praise activists fighting the draft there. shrug-outta-hecks

      Russia may be a lesser evil on the geopolitical stage but treating them as purely an antiimperialist force worth uncritically supporting to the point where you actually take up arms for their revanchist activities (and yes, part of the motive for Russia’s actions is revanchism, NATO encirclement and Donbass also factor in, but denying the revanchism is foolish).

      • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Well I disagree with most western MLs and instead agree with DPRK, China, Cuba and other AES ML nations who are allied with Russia

        Russia has won my trust after Syria and Belarus, they have consistently acted in an anti-imperialist manner for many conflicts now. Why they are acting in this manner is not relevant, only that they are. China, DPRK, Cuba all agree with me

        • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          Geopoltiically aligning with Russia is different from being a Russian citizen living in Russia. Do you condemn Russians fighting being drafted into a war they don’t want to participate in?

          • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Russia has risen to a sacred fight to protect its sovereignty and security against the hegemonic forces. North Korea supports all Putin’s decisions. I’m sure we will remain together in [the] fight against imperialism

            Kim Jong Un

            Do you believe you and other westerners understand anti-imperialism and what needs to be done for the victory of socialism more than the official position of the most advanced socialist nation on Earth that is basically defined by its anti-imperialist stance and almost always materially supporting the correct side of any conflict (even when westerners cry)?

                • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I read it. I agree with the DPRK aligning with Russia (not that they can have much influence there). I’m still talking about Russian citizens living in Russia, not the leaders of AES countries.

                  You cant just throw around terms like “westener” and “chauvanism” because they make you feel right lol.

                  • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    So you think KJU is cynically lying and that the DPRK actually doesn’t support anti-imperialism?

                    You cant just throw around terms like “westener” and “chauvanism” because they make you feel right lol.

                    When my views align with AES and your views align with western leftists, yes I can and I will

          • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I believe it’s a fight for Russia’s continued existence and is as necessary as the great patriotic war. Russians should fight if they don’t want the US to loot their corpses again

            • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Thinking slavery is good doesnt seem very leftist to me but ok. Sounds like you’ve forgotten the critical in critical support. Putin isnt a anti-imperialist ideologue, and modern Russia isnt an anti-imperialist force by nature, it just happens that Russias goals align with antiimperialism right now.

              Also, to respond to a previous point, bourgeoise countries shouldn’t “earn your trust”, that is not material analysis.

              • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Did the USSR “enslave” the conscripts to the red army? Or maybe existential war is a valid reason to take certain measures?

                Again, ideologues and ideology are not relevant. Only outcomes. Russia is fighting for its survival against imperialists. That means they should not be sabotaged by anyone who considers themselves an anti-imperialist. Imperialism is the primary contradiction. Imperialism is the primary contradiction. Imperialism is the primary contradiction. Have you internalized this yet?