Thwarted by the conservative-leaning court, Biden told reporters that his administration would pursue student loan relief through a different avenue, the Higher Education Act.
I think it is down right greedy for those who will typically be the highest wage earners to get loan relief for the loans that will make them wealthy. Why not apply that to business loans as well?
It is particularly paid by those that will have lower wages so how can you say it hurts none?
It’s funny how we can print and print money for decades, we can “invest” in private industries, give them loans with favorable interest rates, billions in grants, look the other way with regards to regulations, not block anti-competitive practices, but the second we try to help actual people directly everybody loses their shit.
Want to help the economy? That $10,000 (or $20,000) for Pell grant recipients might allow someone to save $300 more a month towards a house, a car, or spend it on goods and services. After 3 years, that’s money back in the economy rather than back to bank that have gotten plenty of help in the best.
But we can not print money for decades as inflation is now showing. And if you want to help the economy, why not give money to the poor instead of to people that will become some of the highest earners?
What does our debt have to do with this inflation? Over half of inflation was caused by an increase in corporate profits. Most of the rest were supply chain issues and wage increases.
It’s never been a guarantee that a college degree will put someone in the highest class of wage earners, especially for anyone who’s gone to school basically since the turn of the millennium. College tuition and fees have been rising far beyond inflation and wage growth throughout the 21st century so far, without corresponding increase in starting wages for college grads to meet that rise, and with that increase in tuition and fees, more and more students have needed larger and larger loans to pay that cost. Especially for those who went to college in the 2000s, 17-18 year olds could not have predicted that the economy would go to crap (the Great Recession) by the time they graduated, or that new grads would be most hurt by it as companies handed the jobs that would normally go to those new grads to experienced workers who had been laid off, preventing those new grads from gaining the valuable experience and connections that could get them into their industries. Since then the relative value of a college degree has only continued to drop, as those companies continue to shift to valuing experience over education in their hiring practices. New college students and grads can see that now and make better decisions, but back in the 2000s, when those loans that are out there now were taken out, could you really blame a high school kid for not being an expert economist or HR pro enough to figure that would happen? Too many people think of late millennial-Gen Z people when they think of student debt burden, but the largest portion of it is actually held by late Gen X-early Millennials who are paying for the education they got in the 2000s and essentially got shafted on those opportunities they were sold on when they went to the school everyone told them they HAD to go to. (Full disclosure, I am one of those early Millennials.) Biden made a dumb decision by trying to use a law aimed at mitigating COVID economic effects to solve a problem mainly caused by the Great Recession, but it’s still a problem that needs to be solved to essentially prevent an American Lost Generation from forming.
Nothing is guaranteed but there is no question that people with post secondary educations on average will make significantly more money then their peers without over their lifetime. Multiple times more then the size of these loans. I am not crying when they got to pay them back.
This is money that you are investing to make yourself more money latter in life. No different than a business taking out a loan to expand their services. It is simply greed on the part of those that get this but have lower wages earners on the hook for it in either higher taxes or less money in social programs. Tell me one thing that I said that is not correct.
Over a LIFETIME, sure, they will make more. But especially in that past 20 years I’ve been mentioning, they start out with that debt holding them back, and it’s been more difficult for an increasing amount of people over time, due to the economic difficulties and the rising balance and interest of those loans due to exponentially ballooning costs of that education plus inflation, to both pay that debt back and establish a career and stable life that makes that increased earning possible. Most of that increased earning comes later in life for many, and payment on those loans can only be deferred so far. Millions of borrowers are putting off auto and home purchases and even marriage and starting families because their student debt is causing them to not afford such life milestones, because even jobs that require degrees do not pay enough early in one’s career to afford it; the increased earning is back-loaded, and really I would not be surprised if it’s also weighted heavily towards those who were already wealthy and could afford to not have to take out loans for their education, even for advanced degrees that will add on even more to their income. Further, with the value of a degree dropping due to employers focusing on experience over education and the increasing labor market with degrees, that income gap is also likely to drop pretty fast, and that drop I’m value is also likely to hit the grads from lower-income backgrounds who had to take out large amounts of loans much more than the wealthy who likely already had the right connections to get around experience requirements on top of not having to go into debt for their degree. They’re not the ones benefiting from this policy; it’s the ones who struggle despite their degrees, who are possibly hampered economically even more than the folks who didn’t go to college at least during the vital years when they should be able to establish themselves, who would be the main people who benefit.
If they are the highest wage earners, they should also be the highest taxpayers. If we fixed both issues, they would be the ones paying for student loan relief themselves.
I’m suggesting that if it’s true that people who go to school end up being the high earners, they should be the highest taxpayers. Because that’s how taxes are supposed to work.
Hurt is a strong word but other people would be paying for that benefit.
It’s not hard to imagine someone who decided to miss out on college and take the career penalty of lacking a 4 year degree just to avoid debt feeling like it’s a bit unfair to have to help pay for other peoples degrees. People who made the decision to take on the debt.
Maybe it’s would be a societal good overall but it’s not like there isn’t another valid side to the debate. Personally I think that money could be better targeted towards those in poverty whether they have student debt or not.
it’s a weak argument that boils down to “I’m already paying for things via my taxes but I choose to whine about this instance of the Iraq wars… plural”
Trump gave billions to already rich billionares via tax cuts that were permanent for the upper class and temp for everyone else. Don’t get me started on the billions of fraudulent PPP loans that were forgiven and no one said a peep.
But college? For the working class? “What a waste of MY MONEY…”
It means the people fighting against it are only fighting against it because they don’t get anything from it and that maybe they need to stop and consider that not every piece of legislation needs to benefit them and them only.
I think that may be a generous view of the people fighting against it.
My assumption is that the student debt crisis is by design. Look at how Betsy DeVos was appointed as secretary of education under the previous administration. There are people who benefit from large portions of people being in debt. There’s people who benefit from education being unaffordable. I don’t think it’s about the money of the principal, it the power of having the working class be more desperate.
I am fighting against it because it only supports those that will become some of the wealthiest sector in the country at the cost to a segment that will be in the lower end of wealth. It is simply greed.
Predatory lenders? Biden’s plan largely targeted federal loans. That shit was pretty regulated and had very low interest rates. A pay day loan it was not.
Well, consider that we also live in a world where American school districts, in major metro areas, are literally opening up low income housing dorms for teachers, so teachers can afford to subsist on a teacher’s salary.
Low interest doesn’t mean much when you can’t even pay your rent with a job that requires a college education.
You can use the loan to get a bs degree. If you’re in 100k in debt for a degree that gets you 55k a year job you fucked up. The lenders world normally factor that in but if it’s backed by the government then free money.
I’m not super familiar with how it’s suppose to work, but do they even need “taxpayer’s money?” Couldn’t they just decide the debt is paid (or like remove $10,000) and then call it a day?
You’re right. The debt is owned by the Dept. of Education. Forgiving a loan is just as easy as it sounds. They just… change some ledger somewhere and subtract $x from what Bob Student owes.
There’s no money transferred. The only real cost is the loss of interest payments in the future, but those are interest payments made by the student to the servicer (private organization that handles the day-to-day operations, like, collecting payments, sending statements, etc.).
But that potential revenue happens in the future. If the future revenue is less than expected, it’s exactly the same situation you see if say, Congress were to lower taxes. The revenue we expect to get in the future is now lower than thought it would be.
But but but what if I’m dumb and I don’t want my tax dollars to invest in a smarter, more educated America so in ~15-20 years when the last of the boomers are drooking and dying in hospice homes they actually have the medical professionals they need.
Which one are you talking about? Big corporations getting government subsidies or police getting an ever increasing budget or the military industrial complex? Ah, people being able to live life not being forever burried in debt, got it.
So you think the lenders are predatory but still support them and want the borrowers to ‘reep’ what they sow instead. Basically you don’t have any solution but will complain about any solution anybody proposes. Nice.
More like Biden is taking money from the Treasury that then has to print more dollars out of thin air putting our economy even further in debt which sooner or later is going to have large ramifications.
Not every piece of legislation needs to benefit you. It’s okay if others benefit and you don’t get hurt in the process.
I think it is down right greedy for those who will typically be the highest wage earners to get loan relief for the loans that will make them wealthy. Why not apply that to business loans as well?
It is particularly paid by those that will have lower wages so how can you say it hurts none?
It’s funny how we can print and print money for decades, we can “invest” in private industries, give them loans with favorable interest rates, billions in grants, look the other way with regards to regulations, not block anti-competitive practices, but the second we try to help actual people directly everybody loses their shit.
Want to help the economy? That $10,000 (or $20,000) for Pell grant recipients might allow someone to save $300 more a month towards a house, a car, or spend it on goods and services. After 3 years, that’s money back in the economy rather than back to bank that have gotten plenty of help in the best.
But we can not print money for decades as inflation is now showing. And if you want to help the economy, why not give money to the poor instead of to people that will become some of the highest earners?
What does our debt have to do with this inflation? Over half of inflation was caused by an increase in corporate profits. Most of the rest were supply chain issues and wage increases.
It’s never been a guarantee that a college degree will put someone in the highest class of wage earners, especially for anyone who’s gone to school basically since the turn of the millennium. College tuition and fees have been rising far beyond inflation and wage growth throughout the 21st century so far, without corresponding increase in starting wages for college grads to meet that rise, and with that increase in tuition and fees, more and more students have needed larger and larger loans to pay that cost. Especially for those who went to college in the 2000s, 17-18 year olds could not have predicted that the economy would go to crap (the Great Recession) by the time they graduated, or that new grads would be most hurt by it as companies handed the jobs that would normally go to those new grads to experienced workers who had been laid off, preventing those new grads from gaining the valuable experience and connections that could get them into their industries. Since then the relative value of a college degree has only continued to drop, as those companies continue to shift to valuing experience over education in their hiring practices. New college students and grads can see that now and make better decisions, but back in the 2000s, when those loans that are out there now were taken out, could you really blame a high school kid for not being an expert economist or HR pro enough to figure that would happen? Too many people think of late millennial-Gen Z people when they think of student debt burden, but the largest portion of it is actually held by late Gen X-early Millennials who are paying for the education they got in the 2000s and essentially got shafted on those opportunities they were sold on when they went to the school everyone told them they HAD to go to. (Full disclosure, I am one of those early Millennials.) Biden made a dumb decision by trying to use a law aimed at mitigating COVID economic effects to solve a problem mainly caused by the Great Recession, but it’s still a problem that needs to be solved to essentially prevent an American Lost Generation from forming.
Nothing is guaranteed but there is no question that people with post secondary educations on average will make significantly more money then their peers without over their lifetime. Multiple times more then the size of these loans. I am not crying when they got to pay them back.
This is money that you are investing to make yourself more money latter in life. No different than a business taking out a loan to expand their services. It is simply greed on the part of those that get this but have lower wages earners on the hook for it in either higher taxes or less money in social programs. Tell me one thing that I said that is not correct.
Over a LIFETIME, sure, they will make more. But especially in that past 20 years I’ve been mentioning, they start out with that debt holding them back, and it’s been more difficult for an increasing amount of people over time, due to the economic difficulties and the rising balance and interest of those loans due to exponentially ballooning costs of that education plus inflation, to both pay that debt back and establish a career and stable life that makes that increased earning possible. Most of that increased earning comes later in life for many, and payment on those loans can only be deferred so far. Millions of borrowers are putting off auto and home purchases and even marriage and starting families because their student debt is causing them to not afford such life milestones, because even jobs that require degrees do not pay enough early in one’s career to afford it; the increased earning is back-loaded, and really I would not be surprised if it’s also weighted heavily towards those who were already wealthy and could afford to not have to take out loans for their education, even for advanced degrees that will add on even more to their income. Further, with the value of a degree dropping due to employers focusing on experience over education and the increasing labor market with degrees, that income gap is also likely to drop pretty fast, and that drop I’m value is also likely to hit the grads from lower-income backgrounds who had to take out large amounts of loans much more than the wealthy who likely already had the right connections to get around experience requirements on top of not having to go into debt for their degree. They’re not the ones benefiting from this policy; it’s the ones who struggle despite their degrees, who are possibly hampered economically even more than the folks who didn’t go to college at least during the vital years when they should be able to establish themselves, who would be the main people who benefit.
Bruh. They literally just forgave all the PPP business loans.
Two wrongs make a right? You ok with the next government taking bribes because Trump did it as well?
So the government should take back all the ppe loans they forgave, too, right?
I’m on your side, but at the same time, yes.
You also had to be earning less than $125k/year today to get the forgiveness. The highest wage earners were never eligible.
If they are the highest wage earners, they should also be the highest taxpayers. If we fixed both issues, they would be the ones paying for student loan relief themselves.
So you suggesting the rich that did not go to school should pay less taxes because they did not take out loans?
I’m suggesting that if it’s true that people who go to school end up being the high earners, they should be the highest taxpayers. Because that’s how taxes are supposed to work.
Hurt is a strong word but other people would be paying for that benefit.
It’s not hard to imagine someone who decided to miss out on college and take the career penalty of lacking a 4 year degree just to avoid debt feeling like it’s a bit unfair to have to help pay for other peoples degrees. People who made the decision to take on the debt.
Maybe it’s would be a societal good overall but it’s not like there isn’t another valid side to the debate. Personally I think that money could be better targeted towards those in poverty whether they have student debt or not.
That kind of thing gets subsidized all the time, just not in the form of loan relief
It’s also not hard to imagine that an educated populace benefits everybody
Apparently it hard to imagine for some people.
it’s a weak argument that boils down to “I’m already paying for things via my taxes but I choose to whine about this instance of the Iraq wars… plural”
Trump gave billions to already rich billionares via tax cuts that were permanent for the upper class and temp for everyone else. Don’t get me started on the billions of fraudulent PPP loans that were forgiven and no one said a peep.
But college? For the working class? “What a waste of MY MONEY…”
It’s not like they got education for free. They’re still paying a lot of money.
I went that route and I still want debt relief for those who went through university
What does this even mean lol
It means the people fighting against it are only fighting against it because they don’t get anything from it and that maybe they need to stop and consider that not every piece of legislation needs to benefit them and them only.
I think that may be a generous view of the people fighting against it.
My assumption is that the student debt crisis is by design. Look at how Betsy DeVos was appointed as secretary of education under the previous administration. There are people who benefit from large portions of people being in debt. There’s people who benefit from education being unaffordable. I don’t think it’s about the money of the principal, it the power of having the working class be more desperate.
Ok, ok, let’s just give everyone enough to pay off the largest student loan debt.
I am fighting against it because it only supports those that will become some of the wealthiest sector in the country at the cost to a segment that will be in the lower end of wealth. It is simply greed.
That’s not the only reason to oppose this.
All Bidens solution does is take money from the tax payers to pay off the predatory lenders.
Predatory lenders? Biden’s plan largely targeted federal loans. That shit was pretty regulated and had very low interest rates. A pay day loan it was not.
Very low interest rates, yet nobody can pay them off.
Well, consider that we also live in a world where American school districts, in major metro areas, are literally opening up low income housing dorms for teachers, so teachers can afford to subsist on a teacher’s salary.
Low interest doesn’t mean much when you can’t even pay your rent with a job that requires a college education.
Honestly, teachers are a bad comparison when it comes to the student loans debate.
A lot of districts/states/townships have programs that forgive loans for teachers after a predetermined amount of time serving a public school.
You can use the loan to get a bs degree. If you’re in 100k in debt for a degree that gets you 55k a year job you fucked up. The lenders world normally factor that in but if it’s backed by the government then free money.
True. You can get a loan to get a bachelors of science
Who owns the debt for federal student loans?
I’ll wait while you learn the answer is, “Department of Education.”
Is the Department of Education a predatory lender?
I’m not super familiar with how it’s suppose to work, but do they even need “taxpayer’s money?” Couldn’t they just decide the debt is paid (or like remove $10,000) and then call it a day?
You’re right. The debt is owned by the Dept. of Education. Forgiving a loan is just as easy as it sounds. They just… change some ledger somewhere and subtract $x from what Bob Student owes.
There’s no money transferred. The only real cost is the loss of interest payments in the future, but those are interest payments made by the student to the servicer (private organization that handles the day-to-day operations, like, collecting payments, sending statements, etc.).
But that potential revenue happens in the future. If the future revenue is less than expected, it’s exactly the same situation you see if say, Congress were to lower taxes. The revenue we expect to get in the future is now lower than thought it would be.
It’s the exact opposite of spending.
But but but what if I’m dumb and I don’t want my tax dollars to invest in a smarter, more educated America so in ~15-20 years when the last of the boomers are drooking and dying in hospice homes they actually have the medical professionals they need.
With the interest rates they push, yes.
You sure about that?
https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/interest-rates#older-rates
Which one are you talking about? Big corporations getting government subsidies or police getting an ever increasing budget or the military industrial complex? Ah, people being able to live life not being forever burried in debt, got it.
What solution do you propose?
Cut off the interest and have borrowers pay back the initial loan.
Predatory lenders get shafted for being pieces of shit. Students get a huge break. The rest of the country doesn’t feel taken advantage of.
But that’ll never happen because profits > people.
Reep what you sow and pay your fucking loan back at the agreed terms at the time of signing.
Personal responsibility is a bitch. Only irresponsible people want loan forgiveness.
Wait until you hear about PPP loans…
So you think the lenders are predatory but still support them and want the borrowers to ‘reep’ what they sow instead. Basically you don’t have any solution but will complain about any solution anybody proposes. Nice.
More like Biden is taking money from the Treasury that then has to print more dollars out of thin air putting our economy even further in debt which sooner or later is going to have large ramifications.
That is why I hold bitcoin