Came across this because of the other thread @LemmySlopSkimmer@hexbear.net posted. This user is the lowest Nazi garbage, yet claims to be a leftist with good intentions.
What is the “right” way for Palestinians to resist Israel? How should they fight back? Please, paint a picture for me in a way that shows how they can effectively stop Israel from killing more people, and stealing ever more land, until the Palestinians have been completely wiped out.
Response from goat cw extreme Zionism and imperialism apologia, SV
don’tremoved, don’t carry out terrorism on innocent civilians
The right way was using the internet and global attention, which Palestine was doing, raising awareness of how they are suffering and gaining sympathy for it. They should’ve adopted more Western ideals, or maybe liberalism, encourage foreigners to come and stay. The West Bank and Gaza near Rafah were also doing decently well in terms of growth, labelling itself as a trendy tourist destination.
Unfortunately, Hamas decided thatremoved women and killing innocent civilians was a better method of resistance, even going so far as to film themselves carrying out the massacre and taking hostages – Which incurred the Israeli military and ended up with Gaza being turned to rubble. Sure, people are much more aware of Palestine now, but only the most radical of “progressives” think Israel can be defeated and that Palestine can do no wrong. These people are vocal minorities and hold no power.
The whole relationship between Israel and the US isn’t as buddy-buddy as people think it is. Israel previously attacked US forces and regularly threatens US personnel. No clue what goes on behind the scenes, but clearly Israel has something major on the US, or the US sees Israel as a base for Middle-East operations and considers the chaos that comes with it as a necessary sacrifice. Or maybe it’s both, or maybe it’s neither.
don’tremoved, don’t carry out terrorism on innocent civilians
Ask a Zionist why they hate Hamas and they will describe the IDF
The fact that 2 years later long debunked talking points are still being repeated like facts really puts on display the sheer power of the consent manufacturing machine. Money shapes the truth.
“Source?”
“You’re literally an extremist lunatic tankie, blocked :v”
Thank fuck i’m not that mod lmao
It’s literally a religion for them
Absolute next level big brain thinking there. 1. Don’t resist or fight back in any way, lay down your arms. 2. Become a tourist attraction for westerners who want to visit the largest open-air prison in the world. 3. ??? 4. Success!
Lenin failed to consider he could defeat the Tsar by sending mail to many decent British and American citizens about how much innocent Russians were suffering. Because British and American people are the main characters, their sympathy would cause the Tsarist regime to fall over night.
Their home being made into a tourism center famously works out very well for indigenous people! Just ask Hawaiians!
This describes their entire comm. Every ‘example’ of what tankies believe comes with a hyperbolic framing (their megathread for example)
We hear what our opponents believe every waking moment of our lives
That is a tactic used on all “left” groups, or any group opposing monied interests. Make an insufferable chariciture and associate them with that.
As soon as they hear the group, they associate them with the dumbassery they were fed.
It is simple but somehow still works people are dumb.
You’re totally right and I’ve been recently considering how much I’m personally liable to falling in the same trap. I’m not immune to propaganda, right? Maybe I tell myself that my political opponents are really bad but they’re reasonable people who have good points to make, and we just have a difference of opinion but they aren’t fundamentally evil people or anything.
Then you go and check out what they’re saying and you realize that couldn’t be more wrong.
Every so often I go and check those sites to check if they’re any different in their own comms since they’re always on that "free speech!!! How dare you censor AdZenz1488s point about the 30 million Uyghur dead on tenement square " Shit. Like, I know I get more confrontational when I know the audience is already openly hostile to my ideas and they probably have more nuanced takes there.
And then it’s just a big fucking wall of red comments and you go and see and it’s just “Reason: rule 1 Russian bot” for saying the mildest shit like going “nah they’re not tAnKiEs in that comm they’re just socdems”. And even the milder flavors of lib are dedicated to speculating wildly on politics from a shaky premise on top of another and another and another until you get this jumbled galaxy brained conspiracy which somehow means nobody’s at fault for nothing except for the enemies of the State Dept.
Those dudes definitely have a written list of people they’d hand out to the feds. I deadass come back a bit shook in my optimism whenever I check in.
people are dumb
it’s not stupidity, the imperial core willingly falls for bullshit because they think empire benefits them
Necessary reading for any leftist IMO.
Occasionally, you get a lib who actually talks to a tankie who knows what they’re talking about, then they get terrified by how much the tankie actually makes sense. See the time that Vaush talked to Hakim.
It’s morbidly funny because most of us live in hegemonic liberalism but they think it’s even possible for us to not have extensive personal exposure to views like theirs
Some people really need the cure for fascism in the face jesus fucking christ.
They should’ve adopted more Western ideals, or maybe liberalism, encourage foreigners to come and stay. The West Bank and Gaza near Rafah were also doing decently well in terms of growth, labelling itself as a trendy tourist destination.
oh god
has that guy heard of the PFLP? and what external powers did to them in preference of reactionary religious factions?
These people are making the same mistake I did for a long while, which is assuming Israel is acting in good faith and that there must be a way to reach them as people; the attempt to reach them as people was literally the two intifadas which both started peacefully, had people being shot including medics, journalists, (UN workers?), and even wheelchair bound people, and extreme violence by the IDF is what turned them violent.
I made the mistake of thinking I knew some method they could try that might reach Israelis and not considering that I’m not some master genius or the Palestinians unable to think of the same; Palestinians have tried everything I can suggest and more, and the reality is Israel isn’t acting in good faith because Israelis know intrinsically what they are: settler colonists; they know they’re there to steal the land, so why should they care about the humanity of Palestinians? If anything it would be a detriment to their goals.
People keep assuming Palestinians should have tried this or should have tried that; first of all, they don’t need to try anything, it’s THEIR home that got stolen and not a country on earth is going to let others tell them to be patient with the people murdering them and driving them out, so why should the Palestinians? And secondly, none of us are these amazing, wondrous geniuses that we can come up with solutions the Palestinians didn’t; they’re people like anyone else and they’ve thought and tried it out long before many of us were even born, the issue always comes back to the Israelis who are NOT acting in good faith, and who CAN’T be reasoned with.
As for “They should’ve adopted more Western ideals”: don’t these same people think October 7 was a genocide against Israelis? Sounds like they tried adopting Western ideals and it didn’t pan out; you need endless weapons shipments from America to successfully implement Western ideals, which is why Israel is very good at being a Western country.
Also, ‘encourage foreigners to come and stay’; they did; tons of foreigners go over to the West Bank and are horrified by what’s happening there. There’s a Christian priest whose videos I come across from time to time on youtube who talked about going somewhere in Palestine (the West Bank? Bethlehem?) and being mobbed by Palestinians all begging him to tell the world about what’s happening to them; you had a US president who went to the West Bank and realized how badly the people there are treated (Carter maybe?); tons of priests who go over there and realize the people there are being viciously oppressed, etc; everyone who’s gone there has seen how horrific the lives of Palestinians are and it changed nothing.
People like the guy making the post are either ignorant or racist; the Palestinian people have tried EVERYTHING and none of it has worked because Israel is not acting in good faith.
It is very funny to me that their banner is the pic of the Korean peninsula at night with ROK lit up like a christmas tree and DPRK in the dark. Like they are celebrating energy waste and disrupting nocturnal animals and all the rest alike.
Like they are celebrating energy waste and disrupting nocturnal animals and all the rest alike.
Ya know, I’ve seen that image for years and had a chuckle for the same reasons you stated, but it never occurred to me until just now how fucking beautiful the night sky in the DPRK probably is in a LOT of the country.
In Burgerland, I would need to travel literally thousands of miles from where I live to see something comparable.
But le neon, very Tokyo, so pretty
I swear I live
You:
calmly and politely detail your positionThem:
Damn why can’t I have legions of lemmitors malding about me?
Join the trenches and refuse to fall for ragebait, that’s what makes them most upset.
Oh so that’s why db0 has been attacking & openly hostile towards cowbee
equating MLs to libs,
Oh wow I actually feel the slight sting of insult from that one.
Yep, and it’s revealing that they call us “red fash” but stay federated with us. Either they don’t actually think we are fash equivalent but want to stoke division, or they do believe we are but don’t have the support to defederate internally.
I think it’s a bit of all the above plus a good dash of theyre just incredibly bored and don’t particularly have anything else better to do
As usual, truth is usually multi-layered the deeper you go. Oh, dialectics!
I mean I don’t blame them if they’re bored and feel the urge to throw the proverbial inert grenade into the office to fuck with people. I get that feeling fairly often myself. Like the cat that stares you in the eyes while slowly sliding the glass jar towards the edge
I’m an anarchist and equating MLs to libs is what scared me away.
As I think it should. It’s pretty clear to recognize that Marxists as wanting collectivized production and distribution, and anarchists as wanting communalized production and distribution, both are fundamentally opposed to the current system of private predation and imperialism. The alternative to understanding that is to hole yourself up as you alienate others as they progress politically and gain a more multi-sided understanding, which is why the mods/admins aren’t all in agreement with db0 on this (at least as of a few days ago).
I’m really surprised at unruffled taking a mostly reasonable stance here, but then it’s true of both of them that they can sometimes be reasonable but just have extremely stubborn and warped views on other matters.
Anecdotally, I’ve seen db0 become less reasonable as compared to a year or two ago and Unruffled make the opposite shift, from less to more reasonable.
I’m inclined to agree on both counts.
How these fine users believe db0, .ml users, and Cowbee move
You heard it here first folks, I’m basically Stalin
Wow 🐮🐝 i didnt know you propose to ban between 50k-100k Axis.world users
Who would be the Churchill and FDR analogues, in this instance?
Dessalines said 49k bans would be enough and Db0 stormed out off the post in disgust calling it a cold-blooded execution
That’s pretty good, lmao
I’m dumb.
Their nick is COW BEE I always read like the O sound of “cold” not the sound of “owl”. To me was like Colbee
I just wanted a cute variation of cowboy, lol
Like Stalin, I too have an affinity for westerns
I do that with names all the time, I just read in the way that sounds cooler in my head.
Frieren to me is Freiren, like Fray-ren, wtf is frieren?
Hahaha, no worries!
Dontremoved, dont carry out terrorism on civilians
Uff have you heard ever heard about the IDF??? baby genocide defender
What a surprise the anticommunist also has other shit takes.
“If they would just shut up and let Zionists kill them, Zionists would stop killing them!” I don’t understand how people illogic themselves into positions like that
Because this user is a Zionist who takes Zionist liberals at face value when they say that the reason they’re exterminating Palestinians is the terrorism.
Identifying the way in which Zionist colonization of Palestine requires the occupation of their land and genocidal extermination of the people would require them to see the world from a materialist lens instead of their current idealist approach of believing everything the good guys say.
“this person supports hamas!!!” based of them. Also its sh.itjust.works, ofc the’re nazi scumbags who care more about white tears then poc lives.
goat and shit.just.works are straight up fash at this point. And Goat knows to go after dbzero because he he knows that @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com will run to the right in response because he’s terrified of getting the dreaded “tankie” label.
one sh.itjust.works admins posts in NCD and the other is a massive fucking transphobe, one of the instances most popular communities is a greentext community in addition to the noncredibledefense/diplomacy communities and the meanwhile on grad community.
.ml should really defed it.
Lol I came across this comment that includes you in the OP:
Not surprised. Unfortunately they know that crying about .ml users being mean to them works because @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml has a civility fetish that causes them to coddle these chuds
What in the fuck is that comment, thank you admins for keeping such sillyness out of here.
I still laugh out loud at “Tankie influencer,” lmao.
Straight up Nazi bar.
The red and black in that users pfp stand for blood and soil, judging from their politics
We’re gonna need a bigger wall
At this point, I see an OccupyDemocrats, Marvel-ass cringe comment, I immediately think .world. I see some unhinged shit they’d have a fallout villain say and I know it has to be .works
Literally advocating for the stupid shit that Banksy did that got him rightly yelled at by Palestinians. Beautifying and trying to get tourism for a concentration camp. As an old man told Banksy
We don’t want this wall to be beautiful. We hate it. Go home."
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