• Deestan@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Kojima, the driving force of Metal Gear is gone. What is left is a corporate committee who through focus testing and guesswork try to keep the franchise on the road roughly in the same direction it has been going and avoid crashing into stuff.

    They will make any new version look and feel as much as possible as the previous games, only deviating for committee-approved reasons of monetization, trend chasing, or marketing appeal.

    What they will not and can not do is to strap a rocket to the roof of Metal Gear Solid, take a hard right and drive the car off the road and into the hills and launch it over Mount Everest. They don’t have the will, the auteur ability, or the trust of the fanbase.

    Kojima could do that, which is what made the franchise what it is today.

    MGS is dead, but Konami owns the pelt. What comes out next is just taxidermy with animatronics.

    • BaronVonBort@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      What they need to do is take whoever the next director of the game is going to be, strap them to a chair Clockwork Orange style and mix the entire Criterion Collection and Evangelion for about a year or two.

      Then just for good measure have them write a page of names and slap them anytime a name nears anything of normal.

      Then, and only then, should they be allowed to start working.

    • 4am@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      This comment needs to become a copypasta. Not because it’s silly, but because it’s accurate and brutal.

    • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      As far as I’m concerned the series is definitively over. 5 was the final. You don’t really need Kojima for remakes, just a team of good devs who love the series. But I also don’t trust Konami to pull that simple thing off. What is with the really bad “remake” ports from all the game companies in the last few years? Is it that hard to remake a game?

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        9 months ago

        As someone who thinks Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is the best Metal Gear since Solid 1*, I really do wish it had become an ensemble world. Platinum doing Raiden/Grey Fox. Imagine IOI making an ACTUAL stealth game set in that world. Hell, I could even see a timeline where Arkane made a game where you play as The Cobras. Instead, we just kept going back to the Snake well and had ever increasing dissonance between cutscene, boss, and normal gameplay characterizations.

        As for bad remasters/remakes: A lot of that is that this is The COVID Year in terms of releases. These are most of the games that would have had most of their dev cycle during lockdown and were heavily delayed or had massive scope changes to meet release windows. Sometimes that means we get truly amazing games (BG3) and sometimes that means we have shovelware that just needs to avoid sunken cost fallacies.

        And the other aspect is that a LOT of studios, particularly Japanese ones, are in the process of upgrading their tech. I loved Like a Dragon: Ishin (and am so excited for Gaiden next week). But that was a VERY small scope/ambition game (a mostly beat for beat remake of one of the lesser PS2 games) that was pretty openly about exploring Unreal Engine. And there have been a lot of games that are less open about “Hey, we are mostly dicking around to see if this tech works for us”.

        *: 3 was awesome but very much “Empire Strikes Back”… in a lot of ways including the conspiratorial “So did the Creator actually write this? Because a lot of signs point to ‘no’”. And 5 was an awesome sandbox with no plot or pacing to speak of

        • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          I played the main series and never played the side, PSP games like peace walker, so I was completely lost when playing 5. I was wondering what this setting and people were for a while, until I realized I had to go back and read up on peace walker.

          • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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            9 months ago

            Having played Portable Ops (fine), Peace Walker (fine), and Acid 1 and 2 (FUCK YEAH): 5 was still mostly nonsense.

            All you get from PW/PO (since PW largely felt like a redo of PO and PW was a prototype for the format of TPP):

            1. This random lesbian was in love with The Boss but ended up fucking Huey and is Otacon’s mom. And somehow that is the least problematic portion of her arc.
            2. Paz is basically the jailbait version of EVA in that she is a spy who betrays you but also everyone wants to fuck her but her true love is, and always will be, Big Boss. And don’t ask how old she is because nobody wants to know that.
            3. Chico is your loveable sidekick that you never really gave a shit about but he is like 12
            4. Big Boss has either stopped or started using Big Boss as a title for the umpteenth time because we can’t play as someone not called “Snake” and has something that may or may not be Outer Heaven built on an oil rig.
            5. Don’t think too hard about why Skullface is basically just Hot Coldman but more of an edgelord.

            A friend summed it up perfectly: Ground Zeroes works a LOT better if you pretend that Peace Walker didn’t exist and this is just “the adventures of Naked Snake”. Similar to how we never really know what Solid and Otacon did as an NGO before they became international terrorists in MGS2.

          • Grangle1@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            I hate it when developers make what they say are side games in a series essential to canon, especially when they don’t tell you they’re doing it or when they go into the side game not planning to make it canon and then decide it’s canon during or after development.

            Or I should say, I hate it when developers make the next main series game assuming you’ve played the essential “side” game and leave out or half-ass their catch-up for people who haven’t played it. I call it “Chain of Memories syndrome” after when Kingdom Hearts made Chain of Memories essential to fully understanding KH2.

    • pixxelkick@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      try to keep the franchise on the road roughly in the same direction it has been going and avoid crashing into stuff.

      Based on their last attempt they couldn’t even manage that. Have we already forgotten that as soon as Kojima left the company, Metal Gear Survive came out?

      PS, Kojima has a really cool Instagram where he posts his thoughts and stuff he likes, if anyone is a big fan and wants to sub to him. Dude has some radical tastes lol

  • vlad@lemmy.sdf.org
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    9 months ago

    I don’t think it will be the same without Kojima. Did everyone forget how Konami completely gave up on gaming a few years back?

    • stephfinitely@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      100% agree we should not trust Konami. Especially with a sloppy ports we just got. That being said I think they are looking at capcom and how the company is making money off single player games and high quality ones at that and want to do the same. Will it work who knows.

    • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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      9 months ago

      Well, they never really did. They just more or less stopped making A-AAA games and got rid of Kojima. The Castlevania remasters and the pachinko shit continued. I want to say their football game also continued?

      But… they are getting back into “gaming”. So even those who “remember” no longer have anything to complain about?

      The other aspect is their nasty break-up with Kojima. Which was VERY much amplified because of how many game journos are massive Kojima fanboys and how the rest more or less said “Well, labor rights are good to care about”. Because, ignoring the Kojima love fest, Konami:

      1. Stopped funding someone who wasted massive amounts of money motion capping horses and making women strip down so he could motion cap them in the nude (yup)*
      2. Finally let said problematic asshole recast the fan favorite voice actor… but didn’t give him an unlimited budget so Jack Bauer only got paid for like six lines of dialogue (in fairness, the audiologs had a LOT more Kiefer).
      3. Fucked around with security and opsec to make it really hard for staff that would soon be laid off to find new jobs on the company dime. This is fucked but “only kind of fucked” by Japanese corporate standards.
      4. Released a game without the last mission. Because The Island of Eli or whatever the fuck has no indications of being this massive “half the game” that people claim and was likely going to be about 5-20 minutes of gameplay and cutscenes comparable to when mother base got zombied.

      But also? People still get super excited for a quantic dreams, ubisoft, or blizzard game. So worker abuse and sexual abuse are not factors in terms of whether a publisher/dev is “good”.

      So yeah. Getting the fan favorite back is going to go a long way. The MGS1-3 remasters are god awful (and somehow worse than the HD Collection a decade or so ago?) but considering the big complaint people have with MGS-Delta is “the color balance is not warm enough”, time will tell.

      *: Seriously, I think the absolute best thing that ever happened to Kojima was that he was mostly “heads down” during the #MeToo phase of the pandemic. Although, part of me REALLY wanted him to get a Silent Hill just because, of the ideas we know he had, it would lead to the greatest holy war of all time as the Silent Hill fans and the MGS Fans fight it out. And Bloober would still be too stupid to stay quiet and would catch all the strays.

      • Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social
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        9 months ago

        The MGS1-3 remasters are god awful (and somehow worse than the HD Collection a decade or so ago?)

        Konami has been clear from the beginning that the Master Collection is mostly just the HD Collection but on modern systems. It was always referred to by them as a rerelease and not a remaster. I think the announcement of Metal Gear Delta: Snake Eater got people confused about the scope of the Master Collection.

        Edit: From the initial press release when Konami announced the Master Collection: “The Metal Gear Solid: Master Collection allow fans to play the games as they were, as first released on the latest platforms.”

      • vlad@lemmy.sdf.org
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        9 months ago

        I feel like a lot of these problems could be fixed with proper management. Just because Kohima creates interesting worlds in video games, doesn’t mean that you should let him do everything he wants. It seems like Konami themselves creates that environment. But also, maybe they are actually going to try hard to recapture what MGS meant for a lot of people. I personally like the mixture of very serious plot with completely insane elements, like zombies, vampires, ninjas, and a white haired black guy with a monkey addicted to coca cola that sells you guns.

  • corytheboyd@kbin.social
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    9 months ago

    It’s gotta suck being the director of the next MGS game knowing that everyone knows you aren’t Kojima.

  • neutron@thelemmy.club
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    9 months ago

    Kojima gone, Konami bad, usual rant - I’m glad for David reprising his role once again, if anything.

    That being said, Snake’s saga is long over. Shouldn’t they try testing new waters with a continuation of Metal Gear Rising as well?

  • QubaXR@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Yea, Warner Brothers got one of the Wachowskis to direct Matrix 4. 'member?

  • Renacles
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    9 months ago

    I hope this means we can get a sequel for Metal Gear Rising, Platinum games is still doing the same kind of game after all.

    • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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      9 months ago

      Honestly? I think Hayter is Snake, much like Kurt Russel will always be Snake.

      But Kiefer actually can act (… when he is not struggling with his demons and tackling Christmas trees). And basically from MGS2 on, the decision was made that MGS should have pathos that is not “so is this intentionally funny?” a la “Can love bloom on the battlefield?”.

      MGS2 sort of got away with it because Quinton Flynn is actually a pretty talented VA but… everyone hated Raiden because he was “the player” rather than “Snake”. Same gag as Otacon but people sort of realized it this time.

      But MGS3? I am not going to claim that the issue was that Hayter “couldn’t do the voice” or whatever. The issue is that he just isn’t the kind of actor who can carry those scenes. And that is why we mostly had EVA (unknown, but likely a “real” VA/actress) and The Boss (Pearl Krabs) carrying the story with a lot of the more emotional scenes involving Naked Snake silent and in agony.

      And MGS4 was the worst of all worlds. Between having the player mockery character fuck the fanservice version of Bastilla for no apparent reason and actually putting a lot of the pathos on Hayter and Meryl (Debi Mae West has a fairly limited range) and some random kid… yeah.

      Which gets to MGS5. When Kiefer speaks, he knocks it out of the park. His career is largely built around taking REALLY mediocre scripts and somehow making us care about some obnoxious bully or a psychopath running around with a car battery. But apparently “lessons were learned” from MGS4 so it was mostly awkward silence while Kaz or Ocelot did the talking and… yeah.

      Still, if you can get past the trademark Kojima misogyny, MGS5’s gameplay is miles beyond every other Metal Gear short of Rising. It does have the problem of trying to shoehorn in a progression/unlock system while giving you a silenced (later infinite silenced) tranq gun (and tranq sniper rifle) in the first three hours of actual gameplay, but that actually works with the general horrible pacing and lack of plot (and spoilers built in to the intro cutscene of every level…).

      Although, if you have the option, play it on PC and fiddle around with one of the bigger mods. Doing more missions as OSP (start with no gear) and tweaking the progression so that the top tier stuff isn’t balanced around multiplayer goes a long way.

      Still. 4 with a more talented VA (and a lot less fanservice) would have been so amazing.


      Much like Escape from LA was shit compared to Escape from NY, the MGS series has gotten progressively more and more hindered by being built around a “… how did you not get sued?” reference to Kurt Russel in the 80s joke. Like I mentioned elsewhere, I really wish MGS had become an ensemble piece (and MGS2 was trying for that before the backlash). Rising being a character action game as Raiden is AMAZING. Imagine an IOI led Hitman-style game where you play as Meryl or Johnny infiltrating an enemy base. Or an Arkane led game where you play as The Cobra Unit with all their magic powers. And not having to keep going back to such a one dimensional character as the core of the series.


      Also, just to make it clear. I am not shitting on Hayter. Bruce Campbell is one of my favorite actors (also was in Escape from LA…). He can do very short bursts of pathos but it was clear that Burn Notice was struggling when they had to rely on Bruce/Sam because Michael/Jeffrey was still learning how to act and it would have been INSANE to let one of the better tv actresses of all time (Sharon Gless) do anything other than play a one dimensional character. Not every actor is Lead material and that is fine. Because you need a lot more top tier supporting actors/actresses than you do “good” Leads.

  • tacosanonymous@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    I thought they burned every bridge. I’m assuming they’ll abuse him bc he needs a paycheck.

    • muse@kbin.social
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      9 months ago

      Kojima burnt the Hayter bridge actually, he decided he wanted a big name Hollywood actor because he wanted it to be a cinematic experience.

        • Spellinbee@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          As to his voice quality going down, I know it’s been a while since he did snake, but just watching this video I agree. Honestly, if I didn’t see him, and I just heard his voice at the end, I would assume it was a different actor.

      • delitomatoes@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        The unrevealed plot twist shows that Sutherland wasn’t even voicing any version of Snake

      • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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        9 months ago

        Yup. If memory serves, Kojima had been pretty publicly trying to burn that bridge since at least MGS3 and allegedly (?) tried to use that as one of the conditions for “I am done with Metal Gear Solid and will never make another” that he kept doing during that era.

        I want to say that Hayter hinted at it going back to MGS2 during some of his interviews the past few years, but can’t find any examples so assume that is a fever dream.