Article on subject:
Susan Sarandon dropped by talent agency after remarks at pro-Palestine rally [Nov 21 2023 | Adrian Horton | The Guardian] https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/nov/21/susan-sarandon-pro-palestinian-remarks-uta-dropped
I can’t read the article, what did she say?
Nothing that any sane, educated human would view as antisemitic. Anti-Netanyahu, sure. Anti war-crimes, yes. Pro hamas, no. Pro peace, yes
This is not an anti-jewish stance at all.
“”" You don’t have to be Palestinian to care about what’s happening in Gaza. I stand with Palestine. No one is free until everyone is free. https://t.co/23JHFbuf5K — Susan Sarandon (@SusanSarandon) November 4, 2023 “”"
edit: these->this
This is some of what she said:
Newsweek:
“You don’t have to be Palestinian to care about what’s happening in Gaza,” she wrote alongside the snap with members of the Palestinian Feminist Collective. “I stand with Palestine. No one is free until everyone is free.”
At the rally, Sarandon said: “There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
Guardian:
In remarks captured on video, Sarandon encouraged others to keep speaking up in support of Palestinians in the Israel-Hamas war. “People are questioning, people are standing up, people are educating themselves, people are stepping away from brainwashing that started when they were kids,” said Sarandon at the rally. She encouraged attendees to “be strong, be patient, be clear and stand with anybody who has the courage to speak out” and thanked “the Jewish community who’s come out to have our backs”.
There is nothing offensive there. She’s right, those attacking her are just vehemently against honest conversation about this issue.
This is similar to the idiocy of the Red Scare, where anything less than “I LOVE MARKET CAPITALISM BECAUSE SUPPLY SIDE JEEBUS TELLS ME SO!” made you a blacklisted, ostracized filthy commie pinko.
Except, you know, “standing with Israel” no matter how many war crimes their well funded government and military commits against mostly children with nothing because of a terrorist attack most Palestinians had nothing to do with.
I’ll just leave this here:
Way more Palestinians died in 2023 than Israelis. What even is this graph?
This data is from october, shortly after the beginning of the conflict and the instigating Hamas attack, before Israel really started their onslaught.
I haven’t found a more up to date graph, but it makes the point of who’s been getting killed in the last 15 years. People respond more to graphs than words.
What are talking about?! She’s implying that Jews in the United States are somehow responsible for the treatment Muslims have faced in the country, in the backdrop of an Israeli conflict. At least she thinks they should be feeling something similar. How is she right that she should say Jews in the US should be made to feel like that? What’s the connection? “Nothing offensive,” as well as her remarks show you who the real haters are.
Your chart doesn’t make it all better either.
Does she say they should be made to feel that way, or they are feeling that way? It seems an observation, not accusation or prompt for action (beyond stopping hostile actions towards Palestinians).
I hear you. But she doesn’t buffer her language, at least not that the article mentions, on either side to make it sound more academic. It’s clear to more than just me that she said something wrong. And didn’t say enough right.
Except you have mischaracterized what she said. So it’s not clear whether you have an axe to grind and are being deliberately misleading, or if you just blindly follow people who do.
To people with privilege, a taste of equality tastes like oppression.
Muslims are one of our many groups of second class citizens in the US.
Christians have and continue to enjoy social privilege here. Many equate it with morality, barf.
I was raised Roman Catholic, and I’m well aware that privilege is extended to the Religious Jewish community because our Christian imaginary sky dictator needs the follower’s of the Jewish imaginary sky dictator to stand in a specific spot, presumably not while standing on one foot while rubbing their stomachs, so the Christian Imaginary dictator can end the world… but you know, in a good way or something.
And yeah, that social privilege is NOT extended in any way to the people that worship the Mulsim imaginary sky dictator.
I don’t care what pokemon you worship, but it needs to stop being taken seriously by the actual world outside of your own worship. The minute you’re willing to oppress, imprison, attack, or otherwise murder others for the sake of your favorite pokemon, and I really don’t care which pokemon, Buddha, Thanos, Yahweh, Raichu, Allah, Magicarp, Vishnu, Jehovah, whatever… just fuck you.
On a side note, that imaginary sky dictator, gaslighting ‘us’ into believing that the end of the world is a good thing, really reads capitalism vibes. I only relatively recently realised how deeply capitalism needed to imbed itself to really take off. It needs oppression, it needs war, it needs homelessness and joblessness, it needs racism, it needs misogyny, and so many of those systems are built using a bible (that is against most of that) to enforce it.
That’s a lot of words to not know she said something wrong. Go on, cover up hers and yours. You’re both wrong.
Lol
See I read what she said as saying is to people who are familiar with fear, understand that is how these other people feel too. And that’s because people can’t connect with others, well, but if you draw a similarity, then they can connect and care. And she very clearly says, no one should feel that way. Multiple times. You can’t take just a small part of what someone says, because that takes it out of context and can entirely change the meaning.
How tf you misunderstand something so badly?
At the rally, Sarandon said: “There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
I do find this thing she said dogy…
“There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
I don’t think Jewish people need reminding of the west’s antisemitism - the west literally invented it and, despite all pretences to the contrary, has merely tried to hide it from view as opposed to actually dismantling it.
But apart from that her words are perfectly reasonable.
As an American Jew, I’ve almost gotten used to facing anti-semitism from the right. A Republican politician is tacitly approving of Nazis waving swastika flags and chanting anti-semitic slogans? Must be a day that ends in Y.
What’s scared me is the anti-semitism I’ve seen from some on the left. I’m not talking about criticizing Israel or wanting the Palestinians to be safe. I don’t count that as anti-semitism. I’m talking about people on the left saying that all Jews are responsible for what Israel is doing and saying that American Jews (including Jewish temples and Jewish owned businesses) are legitimate targets because Israel did stuff they disagree with. And then there are others on the left who try to gaslight Jews who say they are encountering anti-semitism - telling them that they aren’t and are just imagining it.
Intellectually, I know this is a very vocal minority, but suddenly hearing this from the left while still hearing anti-semitic remarks from the right has me scared and not feeling safe. I don’t want to publicly identify myself as Jewish in public for fear of encountering someone who either hates me for my religion or who holds me responsible for the actions of a country that I’m not a citizen of.
people on the left saying that all Jews are responsible for what Israel is doing and saying that American Jews (including Jewish temples and Jewish owned businesses) are legitimate targets because Israel did stuff they disagree with.
yeah that’s fucked.
With all due respect, I’ve yet to see any Leftist discourse saying anything remotely like what you’ve written. Even on Hexbear.
Thats really awful. It’s not OK to make all Jews wear the blame for another country’s actions.
welcome to the irrationality of racism
It’s unfortunate that Israeli propaganda has been unrelentingly conflating jewishness and israeliness. A real disservice to Jews everywhere.
Can you point to any examples of that?
In New Zealand, we have had synagogues targeted.
Here’s a post from someone on Threads declaring that all Jews are legitimate targets. This was in response to an article about a Jewish Temple and Jewish owned bakery in America being vandalized.
I tried arguing with this person and they eventually limited their “it’s okay to vandalize” to buildings that fly the Israeli flag - which would be every Jewish Temple in America.
Thank you, that is helpful.
As a leftist, and being honest about it, I feel the sympathy draining away from me. I see the long-term process of removing Palestinian people from their lands and all the oppression they go through in their daily lives. Then I see the corresponding silence or even intimidation of critics from the Jewish community in America. I disagree with that post you linked to, but I could see how one could evolve into that position as a leftist.
Again, thanks for that post. It helps me see the path I should avoid. We should find other ways to engage the Jewish communities in other countries to become more vocal against the Palestinian genocide by the Israeli government.
And paths to engage and discuss the issues is definitely the way forward. For example, I’m sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians, but when I’m hearing anti-semitic remarks from pro-Palestinian folks, it makes me leery to publicly support the Palestinians. I know it’s a vocal minority, but still it’s unnerving.
Imagine if you believed a cause, went to march for that cause, and then saw some people calling for violence against you. Would you want to join that march?
No matter how good the cause is, having people there saying that I’m personally to blame because I’m Jewish makes me leery to join the cause.
I mean, nothing of what they’ve written here is emblematic of Leftist rhetoric.
It is entirely coded in left language.
“Open air prison,” indiscriminately slaughtering 2.3 million people,’ even the tumblr-esque “not repeat NOT” framing are all indicative of left language
If you don’t believe me, here’s the exact same thing said but just with right-coding. It’s gonna sound really weird.
"Vandalizing a zionist symbol, when the zionists have been responsible for the deaths of thousands while taking billions of our dollars in foreign aid, is just freedom of speech. Wake up, repadamschiff
Focuses on monetary cost, “freedoms,” and downplays the Israeli/Gazan rift for the more neutral “thousands.” I threw in the “wake up” too since that’s been heavily co-opted, but isn’t technically a right-flag
People in different communities code their languag for their in-group and if you pay attention it’s pretty easy to find, once you catch the commonalities.
Oh hey it’s this screenshot again, that still isn’t antisemitic.
So saying that attacking American Jewish places of worship and American Jewish owned businesses because of things Israel has done isn’t anti-semitic? At what point does attacking Jews become anti-semitic to you?
Don’t fly the flag of Isreal if you disagree with what the government of Isreal is doing, pretty obvious…
Violence and vandalism aren’t the same thing BTW
Let me explain this further, imagine a German person during the Nazis reign in Germany lives in the US, if they fly the flag of the Nazis, do you think they’re endorsing what the government of Germany is doing? If someone vandalized their flag because they disagreed with what Nazi German was doing, would you consider that to be anti-german or anti-nazi?
Let me be absolutely clear, I don’t condone violence against any one aside from in self defense, I think everyone deserves the right to try and find happiness and meaning in life as long as it doesn’t come at the cost of other people’s well being. I don’t consider vandalizing a flag of a country that is committing war crimes to be violence against people. Just like I wouldn’t think burning or otherwise vandalizing a US flag for all the shit the US has done is anti-American (the people who live in America or were born there and moved out of state vs the government/people in power in the US) but nuance is hard apparently.
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TIL Kristallnacht wasn’t antisemitic at all. JFC. Wake the fuck up
When a person’s vandalism is directed at places because they are where Jews go or places Jews own then there’s no difference. And when someone is targeting Jewish organizations because they are Jewish, that’s anti-semitic whether or not any people are injured in the vandalism.
Synagogues represent Jewish faith, not the government of Israel. There’s a very very important distinction there and failing to make it is a serious issue
Maybe Jewish synagogues shouldn’t fly the flag of Isreal if they don’t agree with what the government is doing then? It’s not saying anything about Synagogues specifically in the screenshot.
FFS do you actually think every synagogue in the world supports Israel? Plenty of Jews have spoken out against Israel’s actions. Yet your world view holds that we should attack their places of worship. That’s disgusting.
“There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
I don’t think Jewish people need reminding of the west’s antisemitism
To read the original comment again, you may find it’s not about proving or disproving one form of hate but comparing with another level of hate in the country.
And, while there’s no Olympic medal for hate victims being more victimized than another, the physical brand of hate muslims can be a little exceptional after the 1900s. Not being a member of either group, my read of the ‘taste of’ quote would have been more received if the comparison to Germany in the late 1900s was more blatant.
But I’ll take this moment to add: the friends I have whom I know follow Judaism do not hate like one state demands they hate. And that needs to change.
But I’ll take this moment to add: the friends I have whom I know follow Judaism do not hate like one state demands they hate. And that needs to change.
Wait, what?
I think they’re referring to stuff like this: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-paints-palestinians-as-animals-to-legitimize-war-crimes-israeli-scholar/3030278
That doesn’t really make sense though. Why would their friends not hating in this way need to change?
Yeah, I couldn’t see anything in that statement to defend. It was stupid as best, and makes her sound like she condones the behavior. Like you said, Jewish people don’t need a reminder of anti-semitic hate and violence.
Oh look; McCarthy blacklists!
Not a single name I recognize in that list.
These names are well known in politics, especially for the people that followed Bernie Sanders (2016/2020).
Lee Camp (comedian, was with RT, now Dangerous Ideas with Lee Camp)
Cornel West (Independent 2024 Presidential candidate, was with People’s party, Green Party)
Nina Turner (former Ohio state senator and Bernie Sanders surrogate, We Are Somebody worker organization)
Briahna Joy Gray (Bad Faith and Rising with The Hill)
Aaron Maté (Useful Idiots, Pushback with The GrayZone, worked with DemocracyNow!)
Who???
Reread above.
Good luck and have a great day!
Unrelated, is your username a meme? Because he’s definitely slid head first into right wing conspiracy land
edit: added thanks, additional details
Thanks you for the question!
I felt the same until I started watching him amd stopped listening to all the name calling from others.
He is far left.
He is in some ways a bit closer to classical liberals, he has stayed consistant on his views.
Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism which advocates free market and laissez-faire economics; and civil liberties under the rule of law, with special emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech.
And to remind peeps, he is a comedian first and is known for his rants.
Always against censorship, anti-war, M4A, high critic of gov’t, against alphabet agencies (FBI,CIA,NSA,…), amd much more.
Cornel West (Independent 2024 Presidential candidate, was with People’s party, Green Party)
Nina Turner (former Ohio state senator and Bernie Sanders surrogate, We Are Somebody worker organization)
Briahna Joy Gray (Bad Faith and Rising with The Hill)
All three of these people are people I would never want to be associated with. This is more harm than good.
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A shame Sarandon wasn’t given the same treatment years ago when she claimed chemical weapons attacks in Syria had been faked & presented Assad as the victim of Western regime change policies, rather than the 21st Century’s most notorious war criminal.
Take a look at these articles, it does present a different view on the events, listed some newest to oldest (some dates 3/27/2023 thru 5/19/2019:
Aaron Maté
Aaron Maté is a journalist and producer. He hosts Pushback with Aaron Maté on The Grayzone. In 2019, Maté was awarded the Izzy Award (named after I.F. Stone) for outstanding achievement in independent media for his coverage of Russiagate in The Nation magazine. Previously, he was a host/producer for The Real News and Democracy Now!.
Burying key evidence, new OPCW report covers up Douma’s unsolved deaths
Aaron Mate at UN: OPCW cover-up denies justice to Syria victims
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/03/24/aaron-mate-un-opcw-justice-syria/
In Douma cover-up, OPCW’s new smoking gun backfires
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/02/03/opcw-smoking-gun-backfires/
Chain of corruption: how the White Helmets compromised OPCW investigations in Syria
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/09/09/syrian-white-helmets-opcw/
Corrupting science: In Syria probe, OPCW erased experts’ inconvenient findings
Syrian insurgents guilty of ‘red line’ 2013 sarin chemical attack, study finds
At UN, Aaron Maté debunks OPCW’s Syria lies and confronts US, UK on cover-up
Leaked OPCW report suggests Syria gas attack was ‘staged,’ MIT scientist says
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/05/25/opcw-syria-gas-attack-staged-theodore-postol/
Aaron Mate, so the same guy who is “standing with her” now. And the barrage of links you just posted are all to the same site, “grayzone”. Very much not a propaganda site.
“Propagaganda” compared to what? Corporate media?
I would stop falling for the name calling and see for yourself.
He is a known journalist that has done many articles on the matter, with interviews as well, explaining his view.
Also the actual OPCW report.
Edit: Holy shit, OP just posted like 10 links from a site that is full of pro-Putin, pro-Hezbollah, Oct. 7 conspiracy content. Who is this?
Just now hearing about this.
So she basically said antisemitism is okay because Islamophobia exists. Like, “well, if we can’t stop racism, let’s at least be racist against everyone.” Maybe the worst take in the past 2 months of incredibly bad takes.
This is coming from a white, cisgender person who is neither Jewish nor Muslim, and is worth $60 million ($10 million she made since the start of the pandemic)
Is that what she is saying or is she saying that Muslims in the US normally get a lot of hate and since many people are upset by Israel’s actions Jewish people are now getting a taste of that?
Maybe I’m missing some additional context but it doesn’t read to me like she’s condoning the hate towards any specific group, but simply pointing out that it exists.
Maybe she’s full of crap or maybe she’s highly educated on the topic, I don’t know. I do know that it appears to me that people are putting words into her mouth. Again, maybe I’m missing something in the story?
My interpretation is your interpretation too.
However, getting a taste of their own medicine, as a phrase, normally means it is justified and/or deserved. So, it could be interpreted as being gleeful in Jewish people being targets. I don’t think it is. I think she’s just pointing out that the use of terrorist actions by Israel affects ordinary Jews with nothing to do with the conflict, just like ordinary muslims have been affected for the last 20+ years.
I think the fact that multiple people are getting cancelled over their support for Palestine is worrying. Especially as it doesn’t seem related to a public backlash, but comes from those with power. Maybe heavy handed PR protection. Maybe using influence they have to support Israel.
As I type it, I realize that this is how conspiracy theories about Jewish secret influence starts. That’s not what I mean. I hope I keep my agent.
Is that what the phrase normally means? Or is that just the most commonly held opinion by those offended by it?
The basis of the phrase only seems to mean that something is happening to someone who would normally be doing it to others. It offers no justification at all. Except perhaps poetically.
There’s also a difference between saying “getting a taste” and “getting a taste of your own…”.
One is just saying that you are experiencing what others have experienced, which is what she said.
The other is putting forward an accusation which she is obviously not doing in that statement.
Yes, but they are quite close phrases, so it’s not a huge leap for someone to make, in earnest. I assume an easier leap for concern trolls.
Sounds more like she is justifying the frightening rise in antisemitism because Islamophobia already existed:
“There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country,”
I don’t think that she knows that Jews targeted by antisemitism is nothing new.
Or she’s saying both are bad, and sticking your head in the sand for one because you don’t like them but getting outraged by the other is hypocritical.
Imagine being as dumb as this comment.
Imagine defending a white person speaking over two minorities and telling them how they should feel about one another.
When you have to take Olympic sized leaps to make your argument sound better you have to know you done fucked up.
When you have to ignore minorities telling you how they’re affected by something them you are probably just a-OK and you should keep doing what you’re doing and not think about it too hard.
The only minority I’m ignoring is you if you are one because you’re a fucking idiot.
No. That’s not what she said at all. You’ve misinterpreted her very clear words.
What did she say? The few quotes I’ve found so far don’t seem to line up with what you are suggesting.
This reeks of a well-funded and orchestrated PR campaign to neuter Israel criticism at all cost. They’re really grasping at straws here, and I get the feeling that if the outrage doesn’t stick they’ll suddenly stop talking about her at all and start stockpiling their money/energy for the next semi-tone deaf comment they can twist into a chest-thumping crusade against “antisemitism”.
In this case, it looks more like it’s Streisand effecting. (Affecting?)
The way I remember that Affect is active. You affect things. Effect is passive, and is the result of something. Affect is a verb (and I think sometimes can be a descriptor). Effect is always a noun. So you can have the resulting effect of an experiment, but if you mess with some variables, you have affected the effect.
Though, in this case, you’re turning the noun into a verb, so you could make the case for either use I think. If you hyphenate it though you can leave it as is without thought. "Streisand-effecting.
Years ago I had a CEO of the company I worked at make a similar comment; “affect/effect. No one really knows which one to use.” So my contrarian, anti-authority ass just looked it up right then and decided to always know.
According to what I’ve read just now, she said that amid the vile attacks against Jews in America “people that are afraid of being Jewish at this time are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
This: a. Minimizes the violence against Jews and Jewish Gathering places right now b. Makes Jewish suffering secondary to the “real” suffering of Muslims c. Denies the tragic history of antisemitism in America d. Pits Jews and Muslims as two parties somehow against each other, when in reality, both groups suffer whenever racism in America goes unchecked e. Portrays antisemitism as a means to an end - that cold, unfeeling Jews could not possibly understand the suffering of Muslims
Your suggestion that anyone offended by this is paid by some secretive corrupt cabal of globalist to do so…
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If doesn’t do any of that, and you clearly missed the point she was making. By a lot.
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I didn’t say you, or anyone is being paid to be offended. Is this your first day learning English? A PR campaign doesn’t normally send checks to the people it targets, dumb ass.
Please educate me; who’s sending the checks? Who’s receiving them?
Do you know how marketing works? THEY’RE NOT SENDING PEOPLE CHECKS.
Do you not know how money works? What do you think well-funded means?
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Apparantly words mean different things for you
I don’t see that in the quotes, what are you referring to?
Here is a response from Muslim American journalist Asra Nomani: (Sorry for the X Link) It includes the quote and Asra’s response to it.
For every one Muslim who has a wonderful and positive experience in the USA, I can give you ten who are treated like shit, dehumanized and ridiculed on a daily basis. You cannot paper over Islamophobia with one nice anecdote just like you cannot do the opposite with anti semitism.
That entire Twitter comments reads like some freedumber wrote it.
Yet Sarandon’s comment does exactly that with antisemitism. She portrays it as something that may (should?) be measured in relation to Islamophobia, and she characterizes it as “getting a taste.” Does that mean antisemitism is less than? It accounts for 60% of US religion-based hate crimes, despite Jews being about 2% of the population. It’s been that way for some time.
I don’t get it, she can’t do that, but you can? Nobody here is saying anti semitism is ok, or doesn’t exist, nor is she from an honest read.
EXACTLY!
