Background: I’m Chinese by origin but grew up in the west. He’s English. He’s kind of a 
but in a lefty way and has been with me to China multiple times, we’ve been together for years. He has had misconceptions before but is always learning. He does go on Reddit still, mostly to talk about land value tax which is his big political obsession right now.
Anyway last night we were at dinner and talking about an idea for a project that’s like quora but with only expert/academic researchers as responders. Part of it would need a reputation rating for the researchers. We were then talking about the use cases/audience for the project and I said “this might be better suited to Asia” (because of how highly education is valued and the pressure on kids to study/achieve grades). And he immediately responded “because they’re used to social credit scores?” Like. Without missing a beat. Maybe I’m overthinking it but it really pissed me off that his first association when I mentioned Asia was… this.
We talked about it and he explained that the concept was already in his mind when he was thinking about the reputation system so it wasn’t just a reaction to Asia specifically. But he insisted that he knew social credit scores were a real thing. I think he did listen when I said these types of jokes were what made Reddit such a hostile environment to be in, though.
I’m not sure what I’m asking but I just wanted to get it off my chest. Does anyone maybe have resources on internet Sinophobia / explanation of where the social credit stuff came from I can share with him?
Thanks crew. Sorry that was so long x
+10 FICO credit score for your partner
I don’t have anything to add. I just want you to know I like being referred to as ‘crew’.
Makes me feel like we’re on a cool pirate ship.
I feel like you got a bunch of good advice. Hope you de lib your partner.
I get you, fam.
I’m from Wuhan but have spent 2 decades in Australia. Sydney, from what I can tell, has been alright, but in my part of the country, western propaganda has penetrated deep enough that blokes at the pub will bring up shit like China wants to take over the world or social credit score or whatever.
I generally try and steer the topic away or do a uno reverse on like how they’re only here because Britain was actually trying to take over the world and whatnot. I can see how this probably wouldn’t work with your partner (I wouldn’t know, my volcel pledge has prevented me from dating since ~2019. That, and also a very shallow dating pool where I live)
But as for your request for sources:
Also, admitting I’m from Wuhan gets a bunch of bat soup jokes so I’ve kinda stopped doing that to strangers.
not only is that just fucked up in general, it’s also so painfully unfunny. It’s like making a joke about someone’s name as if you’re the first motherfucker who ever thought of it in the x number of years they’ve been walking around on this planet introducing themselves to peopleAs someone with one of those names, it was honestly pleasant the two times in my life someone got creative, but I have received countless of the same ~3 jokes for decades
Tell him it’s time for a credit check
And remind him that checking his credit will lower his credit.
one of my very good friends made a ‘social credit score’ comment the other night off-hand (they were referring to a relative of theirs who apparently lives in China and ‘has’ one - but it sounded like bs to me lol) but I knew the argument wasn’t worth pursuing so instead of I just went “huh?” & kept asking him to elaborate until he realized he was just spouting some insane propagandized State Department BS straight from either his’ relative’s dumbass mouth and/or from some bs alternative source. Works every time and he actually felt dumb about it afterwards.
Literally:
“yeah my cousin lives in Beijing and actually has a social credit score…”
huh??
“you know - the social credit score thing that China has?”
huh?? like the credit score we have for renting/purchasing property and loans?
“no no - its different than that, its a lot more fucked up you’ve surely heard of this you fucking communist”
huh? how?
“basically its how China prevents people from doing…”
huh?? that doesn’t sound real to me lol - how has it affected your American cousin who is living in Beijing with a Chinese wife??
“he has a social credit score now”
so like an American credit score??
“NO NO NO HERE HOLD ON LET ME GOOGLE IT FOR YOU”
^ imagine this for like an hour and a half and you’ll have my experience in NYC a few days ago.
Them:
Surely you’ve heard of 9-11, you fucking communist.Me:
This is a good idea. He said to me “I don’t know what Redditors think it is, and I’m sure it’s massively overblown, but I know that what I’m talking about exists in some way”. So he probably has just vaguely heard something or read something a while ago and didn’t apply much thought.
5 words “how do you know that?”
Oh crap this is like some kind of Socratic Method isn’t it. I need to try this, though sometimes I think folks can enjoy the whiff of their own farts too much and become emboldened.
Did you find it worked especially well with certain people or certain personalities?
my personal experience with that method is that it works for a huge swath of people, but you gotta have nearly saintlike patience
Patience, it’s a virtue right? Something to work on…
though sometimes I think folks can enjoy the whiff of their own farts too much and become emboldened.
Did you find it worked especially well with certain people or certain personalities?
They absolutely can - so if it is someone who literally doesn’t think about what they’re saying at ALL, then in my experience the method only really is useful if you want to entertain yourself with a few hours of insane conversation. However, if the person is going to consider what’s coming out of their mouth even a little bit then usually it can work. I wouldn’t recommend it for a like your local sidewalk preacher because they’re probably too entrenched, but that dipshit cousin/coworker you barely know and talk to once a year? It’ll probably work on them.
Like Thordros said - it works best with things like racist jokes or just ignorant statements that you can force them to sit there and deconstruct. You do have to either have patience or a great poker-face - I’ve found that sometimes, especially when doing it to friends/relatives, that smiling and whatnot will clue someone in & make them shut down the conversation.
Noted, appreciate the advice, hope to put it to practice.
It’s works even better with racist jokes. Make them deconstruct how fucked up what they just said is.
Huh? Fried chicken and orange ‘drank’? What’s a ‘drank’? I don’t get it.
“You know, how black people are, like…”
I don’t get joke. Can you explain it to me?
Yeah, thanks for the advice.
As an aside, what you wrote (mostly the “huh”) made me think of this and I can’t stop laughing.
I saw Flying Lotus at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
Tell her you’ve subtracted 300 points from her social credit score for being a liberal.
He does go on Reddit still, mostly to talk about land value tax which is his big political obsession right now.
You managed to find a Georgist in the year of our Lord 2023…
Also Here’s the actual law translated, reading the primary source really reveals how sensational western reporting is on the subject. There’s almost nothing in the laws about individuals. It’s 90% bans on obtaining business licenses if you do financial crimes and travel bans if you have fucked over a community you’re in until you rectify the damage you did.
They also get specific with lifetime bans in participating in the dairy industry for dairy executives that don’t follow health and safety standards, bans on participation in financial investment for predatory investors/fraud, and bans on owning real-estate for predatory landlords or real-estate holding executives.
All good things in my opinion.
You managed to find a Georgist in the year of our Lord 2023…
He can see the cat
In all seriousness, Georgists have dogshit takes. They’re basically a step away from fascists and their non-class based analysis is just waiting for fascist and nationalist exploitation. It’s not too much of a jump to start equating “unproductive landlords” with like Jews, the Chinese (already happening with the people who think rent is up because of Chinese people buying American land), or any other minority group that they don’t like.
This is dumb:
That is dumb. Never even heard of these guys, but they’re dumb.
It’s just an old weird offshoot of pre-Marxist socialist theory. Their claim to fame is the landlord’s game which became Monopoly
It’s becoming popular again because a bunch of anti-Communist losers want something that’s different than liberalism, but also never had a real movement they have to compare themselves to
Georgists should be following George Coatanza theory. There’s your philosopher king
Good bit idea
No bit, George Costanza is wise af
Don’t have any resources just want to say I’m sorry that your boyfriend was racist to you, that sort of shit sucks.
FICO scores/no fly lists/hooligan lists in england especially/felons can’t vote in the usa/you may be denied entry in usa as a member of communist party/background checks in workplaces, especially government.
Even if social scores existed exactly as described, they do exist in the west, he just doesn’t perceive them as such
And credit scores aren’t even for pro-social/anti-social behavior. It’s a measure of how likely banks think they are to trap you in to a debt cycle that you can service but not escape.
Plus steam vac bans, ai plagiarism detection software, and a dozen other fragmented systems tracking you and deciding your fate.
Don’t forget the Israel loyalty/anti-BDS pledges some states and universities make you sign!
FWIW he is certainly not an apologist for UK or US policy on anything, but I appreciate these examples
hooligan lists in england
I have never heard of these
ASBOs would be the policy I would point to as they are a criminalisation of non criminal behaviour especially targetted at children although they have been replaced everywhere but Scotland now with a different system that seems to be less aimed at creating criminal records and unlike the ASBO system exempt children
I meant something like this, like its sensible football policies, but you can take it as “restricting freedom of movement of individuals not facing any jail time”
The UK has real trouble with managing its citizens behaviour abroad. Spain insists we send them more police or they won’t let British people go on holiday there. Amsterdam is thinking of banning British men in their 20s from the city (not unfairly mind)
He does go on Reddit still, mostly to talk about land value tax
Oh no, I’m so sorry.
Here is one of the FP articles on social credit. I believe they wrote another few about it. It’s been deeply misportrayed in pop culture.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real
Here is another (lmao at the fucking url tho):
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/15/china-social-credit-system-authoritarian/
The subheading sums it up well:
A supposedly Orwellian system is fragmented, localized, and mostly targeted at businesses.
Thank you!! Really appreciate this.
Block reddit on his browser lol
Your BF is a lame nerd.
Even if “social credit scores” were real, imagine thinking a system based on being a good community member is worse than whether you’re rich or not.
land value tax which is his big political obsession right now.
lol you’re dating a nerd
Even worse, he is, may Lenin forgive me for saying this, a Georgist.
Hey it sucks that happened to you
I have a podcast episode from a USian academic where he debunks the claim about social credit, he also had another episode on the same podcast about Chinese police stations and how it really isn’t anything like what the media reported. He is fluent in Chinese and reads legal documents in their native language and seems to have a decent understanding about the legal system there. He advises government and business folks I think, and his takes are among the best I’ve seen for a
(though he is critical, he attempts to be fair in his own way).The host and the guy mentioned in the police station episode, that after he wrote about how social credit wasn’t really a thing in China and debunked it, some bigger publications stopped reporting on it, presumably because they knew it was not true (which I think means they thought it was true and they came to that conclusion after doing their due diligence??)
I hope this helps in some way.
Listened to the episode, very good. The way he describes it is that there is a social credit system but there is no scoring involved. What it really is, is a publically available centralization of public records. The example he gives is that if a business has repeated health code violations then other regulators will be aware of that when inspecting that business. That said, he points out that even the chinese use the “social credit score” meme although they understand there isnt an actual number.
In the US we have many public records but they often aren’t centralized in any way. A landlord’s building code violations are a matter of public record. But they’ll be scattered amongst all the local municipalities where the landlord owns properties and probably associated only to the specific property and/or LLC that owns the property. Trying to see just how many building code violations a specific landlord has through all their LLC, properties, and municipalities is a massive task. Any public effort to do it would be met with vast hostility from not just landlords but any bourgeoisie who dont want a central listing of all their violations.
That said, there are private efforts to centralize public records in the US. They’re called background checks. Since it takes so much labor to do such a service comes at a price that only the bourgeoisie can afford. Therefore those background check companies only serve to surveil the proletariat. So instead of knowing how many evictions landlord has filed, you learn how many times a tenant has been evicted.
Ah, thanks for the summary, glad you liked it. Some of their content can be uh, yeah for some episodes I had to keep pausing and I would argue with the silence…
From that one episode nothing seemed wrong more like an issue with priorities. Like constantly mentioning Xinjiang, even though their perspective on it was far more mild than the average american. Could be a consequence of public intimidation, could be a lack of a materialist theory. Probably both.
Fair, credit where credit is due.
Ah, the problematic stuff was in another podcast, ChinaTalk. One episode in particular.
Yeah ok this makes more sense, I thought the change in sentiment was weird but it’s explained by the fact that there were two separate podcasts.
Stupid shit like this is why I don’t date white westerners anymore. I could only hear about “LATIN CULTURE” and “machismo” for the 8,000th time before I just got sick of it. Nothing wrong with discussing complex issues in your culture but these types always act like they have some authoritative knowledge on topics that they know nothing about.
How do people keep doing this after bringing it up and getting bodied by someone that actually knows what they’re talking about? Sure, I did that as an actual child, but I learned pretty quick that I have no clue what I’m talking about and should shut up. Do people not learn from their mistakes???
I think that’s a fair interpretation. Honestly where I am based, these folks have told me no one really challenged them on their prejudice or bigotry. It’s sort of mind-boggling, really makes me lean into the stuff talked about in the redsails brainwashing article.
That article is dead on. Marxism continues to have the simplest and most logical explinations for peoples’ behavior.
I could only hear about “LATIN CULTURE” and “machismo” for the 8,000th time before I just got sick of it.
All the sympathy from someone who gets hit with at least one “saving face” or “mandate of heaven” per conversation about my home.
I kind of feel bad getting lumped in with those cretins, but they should fuck all the way off.
