Agreed. What does that change? I’m still voting for Biden.
There aren’t any perfect choices in life, all choices of consequence have downsides. Sometimes it’s choosing harm reduction. The man has a solid record of progress with climate legislation, pardoning marijuana possession charges, limiting insulin prices and more.
Could he do better? Hell yeah. But I’m an adult in a democracy and I understand that a vote is a tool, not a moral stance. I can apply that tool in the most effective way by voting for a lesser evil.
I also have other tools at my disposal, like money. So I give my money to groups like FairVote that supports Ranked Choice Voting so that, long after the 2024 election, we can vote for candidates instead of against them.
But I’m not boycotting the system we have unless someone can convince me that Trump will see a lack of voter turnout as a lack of mandate to implement his anti-Democratic, thuggish, racist, sexist plans.
I agree with you 100% but boy howdy, you’re, bluntly, a terrible communicator this morning. Just dropping here arguing with your own demons. Neither you nor the other person are on the same topic. They’re only seeing up to the election.
You’re rightly looking further and calling for people to hold the fire under their Representatives so the shittery and evil can be burned out of them, specially as the fire is turned up as time goes on, not lowered.
That makes the world a better place, but no one hears your message when you call them spineless cynics for their ignorance (of your point, the only thing you have in evidence).
Seriously, read yours and their responses again. They’re looking at the base of the hill and arguing. You’re looking at the horizon and arguing something else. Maybe direct their gaze to the goal instead alongside the crushing of all their held opinions?
As one of the participants in the conversation, thanks for pointing that out. I see that I am being shortsighted and reading a meaning into the comments that may not be there. My vision shortsighted in an election year, a time to influence votes and non-votes, and this particular election year is a dire one.
So I cast my gaze as far as November, after which I either go back to the work of citizenry or the work of planning to flee the country.
I can’t deal with the world after January 20, 2025 until after the votes are counted. It’s easier for me to see further up the hill if I know the person I’m talking to isn’t encouraging people to sit out the election, because that is the source of my biggest anxiety right now.
What will my kids’ future be? I hope it will be egalitarian, where people are freed from the chains of capitalism to have their needs met and allow them to reach their full potential as humans. One where humans live sustainably in the natural and social environments. That won’t be on the ballot in November, but a vote for Trump would likely mean that future won’t happen in my kids’ lifetimes.
On the other, I didn’t at any point say anything that wasn’t true and it’s not my responsibility to patiently teach them how not to be a short-sighted sycophant. Even if I wanted to, that would almost certainly not be possible for me to do during the course of one written conversation
I’m rightfully fed up with condescending idiots pretending that a lack of principles equals great maturity and shaming them is the closest thing to achieving something constructive when dealing with avoved anti-idealist cynics like this one.
Entrenched anti-idealist tribalists can’t be reasoned with, but vehemently pointing out how idiotic their perspective is might jolt someone tempted to adopt a similar attitude awake.
Sometimes choices aren’t fair and even the objectively best decision can have poor outcomes. Biden over Trump, there is no question. If we fight now and Trump or one of his lackeys gets into the chair it isn’t likely to end well. Nevermind wars elsewhere, we are hovering dangerously close to something dangerous here in the US. The best course of action is coming together to make sure every Republican possible is not elected, Biden or another non-GOP candidate is made POTUS, and from there carry the momentum into placing real pressure on the government while continuing to systematically knocking out local elections.
We tend to do this as a whole: Get distracted, time passes and we mostly forget about some crisis or another we were supposed to be all-in on, something vital slips past us, we realize it too late. Rinse repeat. What they count on is us arguing over the rights/wrongs as we always do, and for the loudest amongst us to drown out those trying to pull everyone else back in by doing things like, “THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT [insert major topic here]” and working to socially isolate.
Conflicts like in Ukraine and Gaza are horrendous. Yet we here in the US are at that point where either we step up and work to fix things here, or we risk a future where other countries report on atrocities committed inside our borders, by our government. Maybe a distant future and yet I can’t help but see that dim path ahead.
Just because Biden is the lesser evil (and he most certainly is. By far) doesn’t mean that he should be allowed to be an evil.
He’s supposed to represent the interests of every American who isn’t a fascist, not a foreign government that IS fascist.
Agreed. What does that change? I’m still voting for Biden.
There aren’t any perfect choices in life, all choices of consequence have downsides. Sometimes it’s choosing harm reduction. The man has a solid record of progress with climate legislation, pardoning marijuana possession charges, limiting insulin prices and more.
Could he do better? Hell yeah. But I’m an adult in a democracy and I understand that a vote is a tool, not a moral stance. I can apply that tool in the most effective way by voting for a lesser evil.
I also have other tools at my disposal, like money. So I give my money to groups like FairVote that supports Ranked Choice Voting so that, long after the 2024 election, we can vote for candidates instead of against them.
But I’m not boycotting the system we have unless someone can convince me that Trump will see a lack of voter turnout as a lack of mandate to implement his anti-Democratic, thuggish, racist, sexist plans.
deleted by creator
I agree with you 100% but boy howdy, you’re, bluntly, a terrible communicator this morning. Just dropping here arguing with your own demons. Neither you nor the other person are on the same topic. They’re only seeing up to the election.
You’re rightly looking further and calling for people to hold the fire under their Representatives so the shittery and evil can be burned out of them, specially as the fire is turned up as time goes on, not lowered.
That makes the world a better place, but no one hears your message when you call them spineless cynics for their ignorance (of your point, the only thing you have in evidence).
Seriously, read yours and their responses again. They’re looking at the base of the hill and arguing. You’re looking at the horizon and arguing something else. Maybe direct their gaze to the goal instead alongside the crushing of all their held opinions?
As one of the participants in the conversation, thanks for pointing that out. I see that I am being shortsighted and reading a meaning into the comments that may not be there. My vision shortsighted in an election year, a time to influence votes and non-votes, and this particular election year is a dire one.
So I cast my gaze as far as November, after which I either go back to the work of citizenry or the work of planning to flee the country.
I can’t deal with the world after January 20, 2025 until after the votes are counted. It’s easier for me to see further up the hill if I know the person I’m talking to isn’t encouraging people to sit out the election, because that is the source of my biggest anxiety right now.
What will my kids’ future be? I hope it will be egalitarian, where people are freed from the chains of capitalism to have their needs met and allow them to reach their full potential as humans. One where humans live sustainably in the natural and social environments. That won’t be on the ballot in November, but a vote for Trump would likely mean that future won’t happen in my kids’ lifetimes.
On the one hand, I see what you mean.
On the other, I didn’t at any point say anything that wasn’t true and it’s not my responsibility to patiently teach them how not to be a short-sighted sycophant. Even if I wanted to, that would almost certainly not be possible for me to do during the course of one written conversation
I’m rightfully fed up with condescending idiots pretending that a lack of principles equals great maturity and shaming them is the closest thing to achieving something constructive when dealing with avoved anti-idealist cynics like this one.
Entrenched anti-idealist tribalists can’t be reasoned with, but vehemently pointing out how idiotic their perspective is might jolt someone tempted to adopt a similar attitude awake.
I would ask you to step back and honestly consider if your words would be persuasive to an uninvolved observer
Sometimes choices aren’t fair and even the objectively best decision can have poor outcomes. Biden over Trump, there is no question. If we fight now and Trump or one of his lackeys gets into the chair it isn’t likely to end well. Nevermind wars elsewhere, we are hovering dangerously close to something dangerous here in the US. The best course of action is coming together to make sure every Republican possible is not elected, Biden or another non-GOP candidate is made POTUS, and from there carry the momentum into placing real pressure on the government while continuing to systematically knocking out local elections.
We tend to do this as a whole: Get distracted, time passes and we mostly forget about some crisis or another we were supposed to be all-in on, something vital slips past us, we realize it too late. Rinse repeat. What they count on is us arguing over the rights/wrongs as we always do, and for the loudest amongst us to drown out those trying to pull everyone else back in by doing things like, “THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT [insert major topic here]” and working to socially isolate.
Conflicts like in Ukraine and Gaza are horrendous. Yet we here in the US are at that point where either we step up and work to fix things here, or we risk a future where other countries report on atrocities committed inside our borders, by our government. Maybe a distant future and yet I can’t help but see that dim path ahead.
So basically every election ever.