Why does the llm assume that the user is making claims when the user challenges the llm’s reasoning?
The user doesn’t need to make claims to challenge the llm’s reasoning. If the user asks questions without making claims, the user doesn’t have the burden of proof. At the time of the response of llm, the user hasn’t even challenge anything because the llm hasn’t answered the question, so there was nothing to challenge.
So the user made no claim, and at the time, llm hasn’t made a claim. But when the llm answered the initial question, it made a claim. It got the burden of proof and the listener is the user.
Your definition of claim is interesting as it is ridiculous.
Let’s say for the sake of argument. That the question makes an implicit claim. Let’s say there is a claim.
When I ask “does god exist?” And my answer would be “i don’t know.”, you would say that i made the implicit claim “god exists”, right? I will accept that i did for the sake of this argument.
Is that claim one that I would have to prove? Do i have the burden of proof for the claim “god exists”? Am I moving my burden of proof onto someone else, if that person said “no.” And I would ask “how do you know?”?
The burden of proof requirement is only required once there is contention. “I don’t know” doesn’t trigger it unless one person makes a positive proposition and the other person rejects it.
So in your opinion, the disagreement makes the claim require proof and consequently the person making the claim, has the burden of proof?
Edit: sorry, I said disagreement but for clarity, does it have to be a disagreement? Or is the question, e.g. “how do you know?” Enough for proof to be required?
So in your opinion, the disagreement makes the claim require proof and consequently the person making the claim, has the burden of proof?
Bingo
does it have to be a disagreement? Or is the question, e.g. “how do you know?” Enough for proof to be required?
The exact requirement is that the other person does not accept the claim. Being sceptical is enough - it doesn’t need to be a flat-out rejection.
Example: I tell you I have a pet snake, you say “do you really?”. If I want to convince you I have a snake, I need to provide evidence.
Example 2: I ask “does god exist?” And you reply with:
I don’t know
I don’t believe in god
I’m not convinced there is a god
maybe
These are fine. None of these are claims.
However, if you were to assert “god exists” or “god does not exist” then you’ve got an issue, and a burden of proof to meet.
Note: negative claims can require a burden of proof (but its not a good place to be in). Take my case:
I’m an atheist. I am not convinced God exists. It is a fallacy for me to claim as a fact “God does not exist” because that is a burden of proof I cannot meet without constraints (Precise definition, time, place). For example: Zeus does not exist in my bedroom right now.
Strangely enough, people who assert as a fact the claim “God exists” are in a slightly better position (but still not a good), because they can assert their definition of God is imperceptible and everywhere, or they met god on a train last weekend while zonked out of their gourd.
It’s my choice to believe their claim without contention, or ask them to prove their claim.
The burden of proof still exists, as the claim “God does not exist” is an assertion of fact. Whether they can actually meet this burden depends on how they define God.
If my definition of God is “a giant rat who visually materialises before every human when they poop” then that would be falsifiable. But at that point, you’ve probably got more pressing matters, like getting the fuck away from me.
Mhm… questions…
Why does the llm assume that the user is making claims when the user challenges the llm’s reasoning?
The user doesn’t need to make claims to challenge the llm’s reasoning. If the user asks questions without making claims, the user doesn’t have the burden of proof. At the time of the response of llm, the user hasn’t even challenge anything because the llm hasn’t answered the question, so there was nothing to challenge.
So the user made no claim, and at the time, llm hasn’t made a claim. But when the llm answered the initial question, it made a claim. It got the burden of proof and the listener is the user.
Youre not picking up what I’m laying down.
It is impossible to ask a question without making an implicit claim and asking another to verify.
The reason the LLM is assuming the user is making claims is because that’s what a question is.
This is a linguistic failure of English, as other languages drop the implicit claim entirely and just make it explicit.
Surely you’ve heard non-native English speakers ask questions like “it is raining, is it not?”
Sometimes English speaking people ask rhetorical questions like “isn’t the weather beautiful?”
What claim?
I/you/we did. We’ve been over this.
Your definition of claim is interesting as it is ridiculous.
Let’s say for the sake of argument. That the question makes an implicit claim. Let’s say there is a claim.
When I ask “does god exist?” And my answer would be “i don’t know.”, you would say that i made the implicit claim “god exists”, right? I will accept that i did for the sake of this argument.
Is that claim one that I would have to prove? Do i have the burden of proof for the claim “god exists”? Am I moving my burden of proof onto someone else, if that person said “no.” And I would ask “how do you know?”?
A claim is not an assertion of fact.
The burden of proof requirement is only required once there is contention. “I don’t know” doesn’t trigger it unless one person makes a positive proposition and the other person rejects it.
So in your opinion, the disagreement makes the claim require proof and consequently the person making the claim, has the burden of proof?
Edit: sorry, I said disagreement but for clarity, does it have to be a disagreement? Or is the question, e.g. “how do you know?” Enough for proof to be required?
Bingo
The exact requirement is that the other person does not accept the claim. Being sceptical is enough - it doesn’t need to be a flat-out rejection.
Example: I tell you I have a pet snake, you say “do you really?”. If I want to convince you I have a snake, I need to provide evidence.
Example 2: I ask “does god exist?” And you reply with:
These are fine. None of these are claims.
However, if you were to assert “god exists” or “god does not exist” then you’ve got an issue, and a burden of proof to meet.
Note: negative claims can require a burden of proof (but its not a good place to be in). Take my case:
I’m an atheist. I am not convinced God exists. It is a fallacy for me to claim as a fact “God does not exist” because that is a burden of proof I cannot meet without constraints (Precise definition, time, place). For example: Zeus does not exist in my bedroom right now.
Strangely enough, people who assert as a fact the claim “God exists” are in a slightly better position (but still not a good), because they can assert their definition of God is imperceptible and everywhere, or they met god on a train last weekend while zonked out of their gourd.
It’s my choice to believe their claim without contention, or ask them to prove their claim.
Sorry, misread something.
So you think that the person answering the question “does god exist?” with “no”, has the burden of proof if i would ask how?
The burden of proof still exists, as the claim “God does not exist” is an assertion of fact. Whether they can actually meet this burden depends on how they define God.
If my definition of God is “a giant rat who visually materialises before every human when they poop” then that would be falsifiable. But at that point, you’ve probably got more pressing matters, like getting the fuck away from me.
So the person saying “no” has the burden of proof and not the person asking the question, right?
If the person asking the question, said instead “is it true that god exists?” Would that change who has the burden of proof?