Just like liberals only hear tone, chuds only see aesthetics.
Libs only hear tone is a perfect way to describe it.
Seeing so many people misinterpret Star Ship Troopers, Disco Elysium and other obvious stuff, makes me think that every piece of media should have the writer, director and all protagonist characters come on screen at the end and say into the camera “The usa and capitalism are the big Satan. Communism is good. This is the actual unironic core meaning of this piece of art.” before the credits roll.
“The usa and capitalism are the big Satan. Communism is good. This is the actual unironic core meaning of this piece of art.”
“What did the director mean by this?”
“Here’s why this explicitly anti-capitalist media is actually anti-communist”
This is something I’m sure I remember reading about Squid Game
Wouldn’t do a damn bit of good. People were quoting Verhoeven explicitly saying what this movie was about to these fash, and the fash were just replying “well just because he made it doesn’t mean he knows what it means.”
I guess “death of the author” pleading has reached them, lmaoo.
The disco elysium people gave a shout out to marx in their award acceptance speech, it hasn’t changed shit.
Capital subsumes all criticism of itself etc etc etc
Yeah, taking a look at the subreddit, some were even saying this meant the Disco Elysium creators were anti-communist.
That wouldn’t work. FYI fash are a bit more self aware then I think most of us realize, when they say shit like this they kinda know they’re taking the piss, but they don’t care. Fascism is a narcissistic ideology, they literally think reality warps around their mind, so it doesn’t matter if God himself descended from the heavens to tell them they’re wrong, if they want to be right they will be right.
This is why I think people are wrong when they say that “Don’t look up” is too heavy handed.
Feel like part of the theme was just how explicit you had to be for people to understand your metaphor. And even then you had a bunch of people saying it was about covid.
You need your main character to spend 2 minutes screaming at the camera about what the movie is saying to reach these people.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: if you are writing and have a point you need to literally, textually beat the reader over and about the head with it while unambiguously yelling exactly what you mean, or they will miss the point and walk away with the opposite conclusion that you intended. Every work of fiction should be at risk of turning into a polemic. Symbolism, subtlety, and allegory are tasty treats that authors are only allowed to have after they’ve bluntly made their point.
Ok but counterpoint, that sounds like a really unfun, boring, and artistically questionable way to write fiction.
Honestly i think the solution is just accepting that morons are not the responsability of the author lol
The real solution is more just being conscious and aware of how things can be misinterpreted and how the expected audience’s biases will effect how they interpret it (so Starship Troopers to a leftist audience is funny satire, but to an American audience is just saying what Americans unironically believe but in a silly way). But that’s soft, easily forgotten advice compared to an exhortation to always be blunt and hyperbolic, delivered in a blunt and hyperbolic way.
That plus accepting that art follows politics, not vice-versa.
The director of squid game said that it was an allusion to capitalism but people still thought it was about communism
I forgot about Squid Game and thought you were talking about Splatoon and was kinda confused.
More and more people are saying this
Maybe a time for the comeback of greek choruses, where they like explain everything at the beginning of the play.
I wanna read terrible Disco Elysium takes, that’d be so funny.
You sometimes see OPs in the Disco subreddit who are like “I don’t why people think this is a commie game, it makes fun of commies all the time!”
They usually get thrashed.
Movies like this, American Psycho, Flight Club, and Clockwork Orange are just massive self report mechanisms to me depending on how you “like” them.
Wait what is the chud take on clockwork orange?
Just a guess but
“Libral society brainwashes you out of being a cool milk-drinking gangster and makes you soy”
I’d think I’d be hard pressed to find anyone who would think that. The main character is so thoroughly horrible and unlikable that anyone would revel in his torture later in the movie.
I hate to break it to you, but the same people who thought conservative was the new punk rock twenty years ago also unironically identified with Alex.
“I like hurting people, these dudes are so cool for hurting people”
amerikkkans will think they live in a free country as long there is a clown on TV, or rich people just exist.
Starship Troopers is an incredible movie which I love very much but unfortunately it fails as a satire, simply because it was made for Americans who are too stupid to understand its themes or subtlety
IT’S NOT EVEN SUBTLE
I don’t think we are a fair judge of that because we are like top 1% of people in snooping out the kind of thing Starship Troopers wants to say
“Snooping out” is not a real term but pretend it is ok
I don’t think it fails as a satire, I just don’t think satire is an avenue to change. It can be entertaining, but it’s not going to convince anyone of anything they didn’t already know and the people who don’t already know will miss the point.
100% agree with this. Satire entertains us very much but ends up being absorbed by fascists and becoming part of their propaganda sphere. Even something unambiguous good vs bad can be absorbed such as the Star Wars Empire.
In the unambiguous good vs bad I think the good it does in warning people of the bad outweighs their absorbing it but not in the case of satire where fascists are portrayed as good.
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I think this is less the fault of the movie, and more the fault of satire having a minimum requirement for understanding too high for Americans
Unfortunately if you’re writing for an audience you have to take that kind of thing into account, especially so when you write satire
Similarly I’ve noticed this with boomers in my life (big crossover with them being kinda fashy) . Totally incapable of understanding anything outside of what is literally happening on screen.
I’m sorry Auron, I wasn’t identifying with the bugs. I was actually identifying with Rico’s parents, who were crushed under the consequences of
AmericanWorld empire after begging their son to not go off and fight as a fascist.I also identify with Verhoeven, who thinks you’re a dumbass.
If Johnny had just gone to Zegema Beach.
Heroism is when you land wave after wave of unsupported light infantry onto a hostile planet with no preparatory bombardment, air support, armor, or even crew served weapons. Beauty is when you have your fleet orbiting dumbly above said planet, not providing any support, being easy targets for ground fire.
Consider for a moment that literal children are currently playing Helldivers 2 and then going on to imitate it and absorb it into their personalities.
The satire is lost on them, they only see “i really enjoy this thing” and “it’s really cool when they say these words in such an over the top way”.
Satire depicting fascists as cool and the good guys does considerably more harm than good.
Consider for a moment that literal children are currently playing Helldivers 2 and then going on to imitate it and absorb it into their personalities.
90s/00s kids played with their Starship Troopers action figures and watched the Starship Troopers animated series on syndicated TV, and people wonder why Starship Troopers 1 is taken sincerely by many people. Surely being able to buy the action figures of the satirized characters does much to undermine the satire.
A friend of mine kept saying this film was dumb because “how could insects send a rock halfway across the galaxy to strike at earth” and no matter how many times I tried to explain to him he just couldn’t grasp that the fascist human government faked the attack and that the bugs are literally no threat to humanity.
He’s a really good friend and has not a malicious bone e in his body, but he’s also credulous as fuck and falls for the false flag narratives constantly.
Aaaaaaaaaaahhhh
Its been a while since I saw the movie, and I think I get it mixed up with the book sometimes. Was there something in the movie itself that even hints that it was a false flag?
I personally didn’t pick that up. I don’t think there was but also like I was watching it on a plane and a was kinda tired so idk??
It’s subtle but that’s because it’s echoing Nazi propaganda films about their own false flags.
The system is far from earth (even if you assume it’s warped there), the bugs have limited interstellar capacity, the asteroid is thrown against all odds straight into the patrol path of a starship. Iirc it’s the ship political officer that says coms are down.
Buenos Aries is populated by Albert Speer capitalists who are critical of the fascist regime (while benefiting from it). The fash lieutenant is clearly isolated and sad (he’s a retired field offier recommissioned in a collapsing army and he gets the rank of lieutenant ffs, he’s pissed someone off or he’s an incompetent, likely the latter since his unit gets sacrificed.)
You’ll even note the reporter uses the fascist trick of mimic-ing liberal talking points in front of an audience from the city and guaranteed to be hostile to it.
The the recommissioned officer who was the teacher was just combining two completely different characters from the book.
Why do the bugs have limited interstellar capabilities?
The movie definitely takes some of the fascist ideas from the books and amplifies them effectively. I think Heinlein was really asking a what if in the original book, similar to a lot of his other (also, ‘problematic’) work.
None of this implies a false flag.
If they wanted to amp up the fascism they could have used the opening of the book which was nuking the ‘skinnies’ a bug ally.
I wasn’t sure Starship Troopers was satire the first time I saw it. It was the Bush years, so it just didn’t seem that far outside of the realm of what mainstream culture had become. But it was still pretty obviously either satire or terrible.
I didnt get the satire and thought it was cool shoot bugs movie and also theres sex! But i was like 14 lmao. I can be excused.
The sheeple are horrible at reading between the lines, and that’s what makes them perfect fascists. Normies only care about what’s ‘cool’ rather than what’s right. I’m stuck in this society where I have to fake being a douchebag to save face!
The Black Mirror Men Against Fire discourse is always great because leftists inevitably end up identifying with hideous murderous roaches while passionately rejecting everything that is beautiful and heroic
Chuds wouldn’t associate with that one because it doesn’t pass the
test.
Learn how to engage with media, you dorks - it’s obvious which side is good and which side is bad! How can you be so oblivious??
Considering how Starship Troopers is a reactionary franchise (yes, it’s a franchise and no, one satirical movie doesn’t take away the original book, subsequent movies, and spinoff cartoons and games being sincerely reactionary), I don’t think the OP should be as smug in their tweet. When you have a single movie that’s against fascism but everything else including action figures that goes, “fascism is cool and sexy acktually,” then it stops mattering that the one single movie is satirical. It’s like how Rambo is jingoistic trash even if the first movie wasn’t really jingoistic trash.
I guess, but does anyone in 2024 think about anything other than the Verhoeven movie when talking about Starship Troopers? The original tweet has a screen cap of that movie that is making fun of people like Auron.
At the end of the day, the satirized characters all have action figures that are sold in toy stores. Who’s the actual butt of the joke?
Okay and you can buy Capital on Amazon. I bet I can get a Karl Marx bobblehead somewhere
My point is that the action figures propagate the idea that the first film should be taken sincerely and that a franchise with works outside the first film exists. Obviously, people selling Capital on Amazon aren’t going to make people read Capital as an ironic work.
The first Rambo is absoulutely still jingoistic trash, it just inexplicably frames some small town cops as veteran haters
White America didn’t always have this love affair with the cops. You can find lots of media from the 70s and earlier that depicts cops in a neutral or negative light.
It was only as America became less segregated, starting in the 70s. Up until then, of course the cops were used to oppress black folks but that was largely out of sight from the white folks. Once the suburbs started to desegregate more (they are of course still highly segregated), white folks started looking to cops as the saviors of white supremacy. Even then, this really only achieved the current incredibly high levels of bootlicking after the Michael Brown shooting, when white folks began to explicitly, uncritically support cops as a way to express white supremacy without coming out and saying it directly.
As bad as Rambo 1 might be, it was nowhere near as bad as Rambo 2 or Rambo 3 or the Rambo cartoon.
True enough, but that bar is so low to clear you’d need a shovel
It makes it the best Rambo movie, but it’s stil jingoistic trash.
Rambo is 100% jingoistic trash.
