- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) — China accused the United States of turning Taiwan into an “ammunition depot” after the White House announced a $345 million military aid package for Taipei, and the self-ruled island said Sunday it tracked six Chinese navy ships in waters off its shores.
China’s Taiwan Affairs Office issued a statement late Saturday opposing the military aid to Taiwan, which China claims as its own territory.
“No matter how much of the ordinary people’s taxpayer money the … Taiwanese separatist forces spend, no matter how many U.S. weapons, it will not shake our resolve to solve the Taiwan problem. Or shake our firm will to realize the reunification of our motherland,” said Chen Binhua, a spokesperson for the Taiwan Affairs Office.
“Their actions are turning Taiwan into a powder keg and ammunition depot, aggravating the threat of war in the Taiwan Strait,” the statement said.
China’s People’s Liberation Army has increased its military maneuvers in recent years aimed at Taiwan, sending fighter jets and warships to circle the island.
On Sunday, Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense said it tracked six Chinese navy ships near the island.
Taiwan’s ruling administration, led by the Democratic Progressive Party, has stepped up its weapons purchases from the U.S. as part of a deterrence strategy against a Chinese invasion.
China and Taiwan split amid civil war in 1949, and Taiwan has never been governed by China’s ruling Communist Party.
Unlike previous military purchases, the latest batch of aid is part of a presidential authority approved by the U.S. Congress last year to draw weapons from current U.S. military stockpiles — so Taiwan will not have to wait for military production and sales.
While Taiwan has purchased $19 billion worth of weaponry, much of it has yet to be delivered to Taiwan. Washington will send man-portable air defense systems, intelligence and surveillance capabilities, firearms and missiles to Taiwan.
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The island is already unified, they very clearly reject the CCPs authoritarian, violent demands.
Fuck the CCP, Taiwan is a free country.
I was gonna say, loving the use of the word “unify”. I also feel like the AP could have editorialized just a bit at least for the headline and maybe gone with something more along the lines of “reclaim”.
Taiwan IS China.
Meaning the CCP is an illegitimate imposter right? RIGHT?
I’ve heard that before, and yes, I believe that’s actually what they mean. The heart of China actually left the mainland, and Taiwan is the last remnant of true China left.
Fuck the ccp!
AP is just a clearing house for US propaganda
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How observant of you, is that the only defense you have. I’m not particularly pro PRC but the US is the biggest shit stirrer on the planet.
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You first US shill
Taiwan is a free country.
This is not the position Taiwan holds. Their own position is that Taiwan is an independently governed region of China.
It’s only westerners that keep saying it’s a country. They don’t say that themselves.
Come on, mate. People love to trot this one out as some kind of ‘both sides’ bullshit as well. They conveniently forget to mention that the CCP has written into law that they will invade immediately if Taiwan makes that declaration.
That law was only written in 2005, what about the 50 years before it?
Either way we know what people’s opinions are within Taiwan. They certainly don’t want unification, but they do want to maintain the status quo:
The “independence as soon as possible” crowd is almost as small as the “unification as soon as possible” crowd for being similarly out of their minds. And even all the bullshit that has been happening has not drastically changed people’s views. There was a brief “move towards independence” bump for a while between 2018 and 2020 but it has been declining as a result of the US’ involvement being too overt, it has been causing people to see it as something the US wants instead of something that’s good for them or something they want. More and more people are seeing it as the US interfering.
If a referendum happened for this. Independence would absolutely not win.
If a referendum happened for this. Independence would absolutely not win.
And since they also don’t want “unification” you are absolutely against China attempting to invade Taiwan, and any aggressive actions like shooting missiles into waters near Taiwan, or threatening invasion, right?
I am for the status quo but won’t be surprised if this constant interference from the US pushes them to end the matter permanently. It has been fine up until the US took an interest in it as part of the latest round of great power conflict. I won’t be happy about it, but I will understand what caused it.
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Lmao. Fuck no. The US involvement there was global imperialism trying to cling to its colonial holdings.
A more accurate example would be the Cuban missile crisis. And yes I 100% get why the Americans had a problem with it.
I don’t know about the fifty years before twenty years ago man, what about it? Taiwan had only been a democracy for less than 10 years at that point, a lot has changed.
The ‘want independence asap’ is almost 3x the ‘want unification asap’ crowd so I wouldn’t call them almost the same. As we’ve already discussed, Taiwan has a gun to it’s head, so it’s not surprising that the majority of people want some flavour of the status quo.
I’d be interested to know what makes you think any changes are due to peoples reactions to ‘U.S interference’, as you put it. It seems to me a lot of things have happened in the last few years.
All in all, it looks to me like the overwhelming majority of folks want to keep their independence, continue to live their lives, vote for their government and all the usual things that come from being your own people and living in your own country. The rest of the discussion can only revolve around semantics which I don’t think is really productive.
Appreciate you actually bringing the views of the Taiwanese folks into this btw. That’s something that gets left out far too often in these discussions.
Appreciate you actually bringing the views of the Taiwane folks into this btw. That’s something that gets left out far too often in these discussions.
What I care about most on the majority of issues is what people want. Despite the name of our system being “democracy” we don’t usually tend to get what we want though, I don’t think the majority of people want to start a war. Or want a child labour. Or want no healthcare. No rights. Blah blah blah. It would be nice if democracy produced democratic outcomes, rather than the outcome that most benefits one particular class.
Ah yes, giving military aid to Taiwan is turning it into a powder keg and aggravating the threat of war. Firing missile into the ocean all around Taiwan is just a calm and rational thing to do to help ease tensions in the region.
Fuck off CCP.
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Yeah Taiwan has had independence far too long for them to accept being swept into the Chinese system.
A lot of hypocritical trolling in this thread. Tankie lemmy?
And look what happened yo Hong Kong after “promises” anyway! A reasonable person would expect the same treatment or worse for Taiwan
They were never really “dependent” to begin with. It was a split, and Taiwan is what remains of the OG Chinese Government. They’re kind of MORE legit that the CCP.
It’s not America’s job to intervene in a civil war in East Asia. I’m not sure how it doing so could be seen as anything but provocative.
The vast majority of American microchips are made in Taiwan at TSMC, if the people’s republic of china controlled this it would be devastating for the US and most western countries as china would have complete control over military chip production and likely would have access to American military secrets embedded in microchips produced there. It is of utmost importance to the entire western world that Taiwan maintains their self-government, whether or not it really is a part of china.
The fact that you call it a civil war is all we need to know.
edit: my bad, looking at your home instance would have been an even better way of immediately knowing you’re full of shit.
edit2: and yes, I am fully aware that both Taiwan and the PRC officially view themselves as the legitimate government of the whole of China but it’s pretty fucking clear that in practice they are separate countries to anyone who is not snorting red propaganda like a champ.
It actually is their job. They have several treaties from SE counties trying to avoid being abused by China that go back decades
It is because they have had a defense pact for years. So it’s very much part of its job. Taiwan is the legitimate government of China and has simply been stuck off the cost in exile for years. The US never should have normalized relations with an illegitimate government in the first place.
Arming a secessionary territory after protecting it with European interventionism for decades is literally making it into a powder keg. Deliberately demonstrating military capabilities, like detonating over 1000 nuclear bombs in territories inhabited and used by the world’s indigenous peoples, from the Pacific Islands to the deserts of Turtle Island, is a calm and rational deterrent strategy.
You are projecting your Western atrocities onto other people. Again.
The Chinese Civil War ended without Mao being able to capture Taiwan, where the KMT moved its Republic. No secession necessary. It was part of the ROC before the war and never part of the CCP.
Put your propagandized version on the bookshelf next to the story about your tanks running over your own youth to preserve your authoritarian system.
And you talking about indigenous people while you try to eradicate the Uyghurs in Xinjiang is another book on that shelf.
The fucking Europeans moved their navies in to defend the KMT and made it clear that they wanted to work with the KMT because Europe was anti-communist. It’s not merely that the PLA couldn’t take Taiwan.
The idea that because Taiwan was part of the ROC and therefore is legitimate because it still is is so fucking ridiculous I don’t even know where to begin. Let’s maybe start with the White Terror that history books say started when the KMT declared martial law on the island but doesn’t include the killing of 18k people on the island who rose up to fight the KMT. Why would that have happened if they were all just part of the ROC and everything was fine and continuous? Why would the White Terror last 40 years of it was just everyone on the island was totally fine being part of this continuous ROC you imagine in your delusion? Why would the KMT need to spend decades killing dissidents?
You can put your version of events into your needle and inject it straight into your track marked arms. You live off delusional coping mechanisms that allow you to maintain your self-concept as one of the good ones who sees and understands the true evil in the world.
Except I hate all the terrible shit America does and have no delusions about its terribleness. Two things are similtaneously true about Taiwan. They do not want to be under the control of mainland China and deserve to live free from oppression. Yet, under the rules based international system of sovereignty that is not based on popular sovereignty, mainland China has a substantial claim to Taiwan. This doesn’t make their claim ethical or morally right as the system itself was made by imperial powers.
China is in part terrible because it has to exist in the terrible international system of imperialism and global capitalism. They needed to adopt the practices of global capitalism, imperialism, and nationalism to compete on the world stage and avoid being victims of imperialism. This doesn’t make China the heroes, as they do the evil themselves, but it explains some of the evil. I don’t know how to dismantle a global system, but only a fool would take China’s word that they’ll totally do communism in the future, especially when they have so many tools for enslavement.
Taiwan would never attack China, the only way a war between China and Taiwan happens is if China invades Taiwan.
China saying this increases the “risk” of war is nothing but doublespeak.
If anything decreases the risk of War as in it decreases the likelihood China will do anything.
Them complaining about it is actually a sign of that the determined is working.
Imperialist China wants to take more land by force.
We should continue to stand up for the sovereign rights of any country being bullied by a larger country.
country
Might want to rephrase this. They do not call themselves a country. They call themselves a region of China.
Oh, you know what he means. They don’t want to unreasonably provoke China so they play the “One China” game. Call having your own Government and standing military whatever you want but “country” is a pretty good label for it.
You’re making up what they think instead of listening to what they actually say.
How so? I don’t see your point.
Is this comment coming from an American? I assumed that it is the case and found it hilarious.
B-but America did bad things in the past, so that makes it totally and completely okay for everyone else to do the same!
“Before you have an opinion about geopolitics, make sure you’re not from the most powerful country on earth.”
Normal internet opinions
You mean the country that fought for its independence with the assistance of its allies?
Hey, CCP! You mean ‘steal’ the island.
Ask Putin how the “fuck around” is doing for his country?
They won’t do anything. The Chinese government is terrified by Taiwan. So sadly the Russians are the only ones who enter the „finding out“.
So sadly the Russians are the only ones who enter the „finding out“.
Counterpoint: It’s not sad that there isn’t going to be a war, whether or not it might be humiliating to an authoritarian regime.
Maybe all the dead Chinese soldiers will be a deterrent too them
They have an overabundance of men thanks to their stupid one child policy. The easiest way to correct their population numbers is to start a war to kill a bunch of the excess men.
China’s population is actually in danger of the opposite extreme, that is, a population crash. They have a very large population currently, and probably will always be on the larger side, but the policy you mentioned, and the fact that it was continued longer than it had any utility, among other things, means that their birth rate is unsustainably low, in the long term, similarly to how Japan’s somewhat famously is. Beyond the normal dangers going to war poses to a country, like retaliatory action and economic disruption, losing any sizable fraction of it’s young labor force right before having a huge fraction of it’s population enter retirement age would be to take a bad situation and make it much worse. While having a significantly higher number of men than women might mean that there is a population of men whos absence would not affect the fertility rate, those people still contribute to the pool of talent and labor in the country.
They have an underabundance of men, and a severe underabundance of women. Their demographics are looking terrible either way.
Edit: here’s the population pyramid, doesn’t look very pyramidal
Oh, you’re talking about Youth Bulge Theory, a theory espoused by the US military to understand where conflicts will emerge and how to control them by killing off military aged males in those region through controlled conflicts.
You are projecting your death worship on people you consider “other”. Again.
No, I’m saying China has about 40 million surplus men who will never be able to marry and start their own families. These people are causing problems in China, This very situation has happened in Chinese history before, the Nian Rebellion, where surplus males joined the Nian gangs and started terrorizing the countryside.
Now, historically, every single country on earth has dealt with the problem of excess males by starting a war. You either lose and kill a bunch of men who could be a problem, or win and kill a bunch of enemy men, thus freeing up their wives and daughters to become part of your population, thus solving the excess male problem.
And people say that calling the West a death cult is an exaggeration
So “unify” is the new “rape and pillage”?
“Unify the island” says west Tawain. Should it read “Unity with the island?”
Yeah, the island country of Taiwan is already united, they don’t want a CCP invasion.
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If course they say that, they don’t want aid going to Tiwan, so make people think it won’t help. You can’t rely on an opposing parties appraisal of what it’s response is going to be, since they have massive insensitive to bluff.
Edit: here’s the population pyramid, doesn’t look very pyramidal
Big yikes on that pyramid. Please could you share where you got it from?
Sure, think it’s on the wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China
Thanks. China looks like it might have a big problem on its hands with that large volume of young men without partners.
doesn’t look very pyramidal
What it says to me is “China has a decade or so left before they won’t have the manpower to attempt an invasion”.
That to me, is more worrying than reassuring.
I think people have some pretty unrealistic expectations about Taiwan.
It’s not going to shake out like Ukraine, and that’s mostly because the geography is totally different. If this ever does escalate to the point that China goes in militarily there is basically absolutely no chance that Taiwan wins.
Why? Because it’s impossible to supply it. Ukraine has held out this long because it’s a country with an absolutely massive border and very good train infrastructure. This allows for supplying the country very effectively.
Taiwan on the other hand is an island that will be blockaded as soon as any conflict starts. The only way you will be able to supply it is by breaking that blockade, effectively starting ww3. On top of that the lack of infrastructure means that any supplies sent will be very very very slow, and there will be no civilian traffic to hide weapons shipments.
Hopefully it doesn’t ever come to that occurring. But if it does happen we will either be getting ww3 or watching as the blockade simply allows the island to run out of essential munitions and then takes it.
It also means that the difficulty in taking over taiwan, from China, is also that much more difficult.
Every nation that trades with Taiwan has a vested interest in getting past, or preventing a Chinese blockade of the island.
China cannot defeat the combined navies of South East Asia + pacific + USA, plus the coastal batteries and medium-ranged missile capability that taiwan is building up.
China, at best, can attempt to bomb the island into nothing, which also isn’t exactly palatable.
They don’t need to defeat any of those, because they won’t fight. Much like nobody will fight Russia. Because it means ww3.
They will just continue to work on moving chip manufacturing elsewhere, they have that whole thing with moving TSMC to the US but there’s so much racism that a lot of the high-skill workers that are essential to research and operations don’t seem to want to move. If the US bothered addressing that it would go a lot smoother.
Don’t worry, we have contingency plans in place to ensure any attempts at a blockade will militarily fail. Why do you think strategic nuclear submarines openly ported in South Korea and Australia recently?
I don’t think they’re stupid enough to get involved. But if they do we all either die in nuclear hell or die from starvation afterwards.
Don’t underestimate the “stupidity” of authoritarian regimes.
Like we’ve seen with Russia the information that leaders base their decisions on do not necessarily reflect reality in any way. China could very well start WW3 by invading Taiwain based on the false pretenses that everyone would just capitulate and totally be on their side like Russian leadership thought would happen in Ukraine.
If you ever get the clearance, look up the global campaign plans and prioritized regional objectives for INDOPACOM.
I do not give a damn about your fantasy world war plans lmao. The notion that anyone “wins” afterwards is so blatantly absurd that it feels like I’m talking to a cartoon character.
This is a very old blood feud. Taiwan’s government is the former government of mainland China (the republic of China) prior to 1949 communist civil war. The ROC ended the qing dynasty, the longest monarchic dynasty in Chinese history and instituted democracy. When the communists took over the republic of chinas leadership were basically fled and the country and established Taiwan. To the CCP Taiwanistill represents the republic of China, and just like north and south Korea, the CCP is still at war with the republic of China (Taiwan).
Get me Dennis Reynolds! We need to get the gang on this “Taiwan Problem.”
