“To make this crystal clear, if trial begins and Judge Cannon makes a ruling that is legally erroneous in the middle of the trial, resulting in a not guilty verdict, prosecutors cannot appeal the verdict,” he explained. “That’s why Jack Smith wants a ruling before trial, so he can appeal.”
Holy shit! That’s a hell of a loophole. Just what trump was looking for.
That’s double jeopardy. You cannot be tried for the same crime twice and that is clearly what Trump and Cannon are counting on.
In a jury trial it should really only be double jeopardy when the jury comes to a non-guilty verdict. In all other cases both sides should reserve the right to appeal.
How does it feel to be a federal judge and have the vast majority of legal scholars and prosecutors be so fundamentally critical of your orders it’s like they are calling you incompetent, corrupt, or both? And you wonder why you lose clerks?
Cannon doesn’t give two shits about that or she wouldn’t be blatantly siding with the defendant who nominated her.
My “guess” is that Jack Smith has decided it’s now or never to get rid of Judge Cannon. It’s clear she is dragging this out intentionally. Once Judge Cannon responds that she will not “speed things up” , Jack Smith will go to the Appellete Court and ask to have her removed . That she will give a shit about.
If she is removed it won’t matter if she gives a shit about anything.
Yes, then she’ll just be a federal judge who is known to be overturned easily and not to be trusted by her colleagues
While still being on the bench and doing damage to the system…
Can’t do much damage when you’re being overturned.
Long term most of the damage can be mitigated, but the delays and the possibility of being able to ruin a case with a bad ruling in the middle of the trial that can’t be undone is still doing damage.
If she can delay until after the election, that has an impact that can’t be overturned.
Bank accounts will beg to differ.
100 bucks says they deny his appeal and what he says comes true. 100% like Trump and co want and all the GOP. These whole things a joke.
They’ve already overturned her twice. They know she’s an incompetent hack & beholden to Trump.
I said it yesterday, she wants to be removed at a late enough stage of the trial that it will take another judge past the election to get up to speed on the case.
It’s important to note too that the ones overturning her were appointed by conservative presidents. It’s that blatantly bad.
We just have to hope their conservative bias doesn’t go so far as a fascist takeover. The Bush years were bad but not on this level of corrupt.
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Why do people keep calling her incompetent? As far as I can tell, she’s been doing her job – being a blatantly corrupt ally of Trump – perfectly.
What opportunity to skew the trial in Trump’s favor has she not taken advantage of? 'Cause that’s the true measure of her being incompetent.
Yeah, this seems more on the order of weaponized incompetence, it’s giving the appearance of incompetence for a specific purpose so she can try to avoid claims of corruption or bias. Otherwise, she’s doing the job she was put in there to do, that’s why Trump and the GOP were so hot on getting all those Judges appointed.
You know a whole bunch of Trump people are in prison right and they’ve already been working on seizing his assets in increments of $100 million
I’m as jaded as anyone about the leniency the justice system keeps showing to Trump, but it’s not like everything has been going exactly his way
Justice delayed is justice denied when the damage is ongoing.
100% agreed
Everyone’s treating it like business as usual. The third floor of the building is engulfed in flames, and the manager on duty is saying “Well we need to finish the staff meeting, dealing with the fire is on the agenda yes, but we have other business to take care of also.”
Anyone dealing with anything Trump related should have 24/7 security from the Justice Dept, and everything else on their plate they should get a pass on. If some drug dealers they were also trying a case for need to wait, that’s okay.
It’s not as though his peons getting locked up means fuck about dick to him. They were always cannon fodder. They served their purpose.
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Feels great, I’m a narcissist and they’re talking about me
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So her options are to A) side with the fascist mob and throw away democracy and all her credibility and potentially her job, or B) do her job faithfully and put herself and her family at the same risks all her colleagues have been doing.
Yeah, I guess federal judges really only look out for themselves at all costs and have no pride in their responsibility or love for their country. Like, I expect that from her because we’ve seen she’s a sympathizer, but that’s not what we should expect from federal judges.
She had no qualifications to be a federal judge at this level, so there should be no expectation that she would behave as other federal judges, who until recently, were seasoned and well tested judges with decades of experience.
Here’s the thing. I’m on Smith’s side and all of that, but he’s bluffing on this and Cannon knows it. Since she is in no legal jeopardy (The only thing that can happen to her is impeachment, which is impossible in today’s political environment), there is absolutely nothing stopping her from simply ignoring Smith until the trial, waiting until the jury is seated, then essentially dismiss the case for whatever reason she wants once double jeopardy is attached and the dismissal is not appealable. If she is willing to endure the professional fallout from that decision, there is literally nothing Smith can do to stop her.
Mark my words:
- Cannon can and will dismiss this case the instant she gets the opportunity once her decisions aren’t appealable and double jeopardy attaches.
- The GA case will fall apart because of the affair between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade. She committed ethics violations regarding her affair and the cover-up that should get her disbarred, and I think even the worst of Trump’s lawyers should and will be hopping all over that if they even have a shred of competency.
- The Supreme Court has intentionally delayed the DC case by two months while they – I wish I was joking – decide whether or not the President of the United States has total immunity from legal prosecution, and seem poised to find a way to give him such a ruling in a way that only applies to Trump and wouldn’t apply to future Presidents. Their decision to hold off for two months on this is a clear stalling tactic so they can figure out exactly how to do that.
- The NY case was already seen as a relatively weak case based on law that even Bragg’s supporters are saying is shaky at best. The general public really couldn’t care less, and Trump is seen as being at no significant legal risk as there is no jail time involved, monetary fines are inconsequential to him, and polls show he will suffer no political fallout from the verdict. Complicating matters is Bragg’s office fumbling the ball when it comes to discovery, giving Trump an opportunity to cause even more delays.
From the day Trump came down that escalator, he has been playing our government, our judicial system, and our press system like a god damned fiddle. They continue to play Trump’s games by Trump’s rules and wondering why they keep getting dragged down to his level and beaten to death with experience. And as long as those in charge of just about every facet of our society continues to allow Trump to play by his own rules, there is no reason to believe that anything is going to change any time soon.
Not an attorney myself but also didn’t see you wrestle with the mention of MANDAMUS in the brief. Discuss.
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You’re very welcome, glad to share the gospel according to Harry. Also thanks for banging out that killer summary, I should have done that myself but excuse excuse.
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From my view, it is perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of any one take, even from someone as well credentialed as Harry.
To that point, one bugbear I am wary of is the inherent cover that lawyerly types tend to give to the Justice system writ large: namely, that it can self-police and correct for biases or bad actors. No legal source I’ve followed has yet to grapple with this blind spot specifically.
Which is to say, I’m right there beside you in being hesitant to overinvest in any one outcome.With that, I’ll throw one more resource at you, and that is the Serious Trouble podcast. The cadence from this crew is much slower, but they bring a fair bit of levity to the table alongside some deep perspective from the angle of defense, and so I look forward to each episode. My hope is they will dive into a discussion around mandamus also, as I am just as flummoxed as you when it comes to understanding specifics.
Have a good one, and thanks again for the thoughtful conversation.
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Greatest country in the world my ass
Good series.
I watch this clip every time it’s posted. I wish there were real people that talked like this.
Although I’m not a lawyer, I suspect this analysis is correct because it is completely depressing and so matches up perfectly with reality.
Portugal has one of the best golden visa programs in Western Europe.
Thanks for the tip
The GA case will fall apart because of the affair between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade.
Yep consenting adults being romantically involved is not an affair.
Actually, yes it was an affair. They started having a romantic relationship in 2019, and he was married until 2021. That’s the literal definition of an affair. They also snuck around to hotel rooms and played all sorts of shell games with money to cover it up. They freely admitted it all on the stand, and even after that the judge still doesn’t believe they were fully forthcoming.
With that said…yes, they are consenting adults. Yes, their affair has absolutely nothing to do with Trump’s case. But that’s actually kinda the point. Regardless of the cases before her, she engaged in unethical (at best) conduct, was not forthcoming under testimony, and should consider herself lucky if she doesn’t get disbarred. If she weren’t the one who was the lead on the Trump case, I’d be willing to bet there would be a lot less support for her and a lot more calls for her resignation. She is likely benefitting because others don’t want to see the Trump case fall apart entirely by having her removed.
That case is, far and away, the biggest case that she will have in her career. Probably the biggest and most consequential case in US history. In a case of this magnitude, you get one shot. You cross every T, dot every I. You engage in exactly fucking nothing that would even tangentally affect this case or hint at even a whiff of impropriety. To take on this case while engaging in that kind of unethical (if not outright illegal) conduct just shows hubris, a complete lack of judgement, and a complete disregard for the importance of the case that she herself brought or the impact that her actions could have on her career, the case, and even the country as a whole.
Professional fallout? Trump will make them a supreme Court member for this.
The GA case will fall apart because of the affair between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade. She committed ethics violations regarding her affair and the cover-up that should get her disbarred, and I think even the worst of Trump’s lawyers should and will be hopping all over that if they even have a shred of competency.
I don’t know much about the US legal system, but I don’t understand how this affair has any bearing on the legitimacy of the case being brought against Trump?
I presume Fani Willis could be removed, but the case against Trump would still continue under a new DA?
I don’t know much about the US legal system, but I don’t understand how this affair has any bearing on the legitimacy of the case being brought against Trump?
It doesn’t. From Trump’s point of view, this was the equivalent of Trump standing at Mar-a-Lago, trying to score a hole in one on a golf course in New York by hitting the ball by way of Tokyo and just hoping the wind shifts direction, and actually hitting it. Her affair itself has absolutely zero bearing on the Trump case, but the facts that have been unearthed surrounding the affair have brought her general ethics and motives into question. This is typically the death knell of a lawyer’s career.
I presume Fani Willis could be removed, but the case against Trump would still continue under a new DA?
It assumes a number of things:
- GA is traditionally a red state. It is very possible that a new administration may choose (or be told to) to simply let the case die.
- A new team would need time to be brought up to speed and prep for the case. This alone would easily push the case well into 2025 or even 2026, which basically gives Trump the victory he’s been seeking in the first place.
- The ethics questions of why the case was brought in the first place would linger anyway, which could complicate the case going forward, and which Trump and his team would mercilessly exploit in order to sow doubt, create endless delays, and/or even hope for jury nullificaiton, lowering the chances of a successful conviction.
there is absolutely nothing stopping her from simply ignoring Smith until the trial, waiting until the jury is seated, then essentially dismiss the case for whatever reason she wants once double jeopardy is attached and the dismissal is not appealable. If she is willing to endure the professional fallout from that decision, there is literally nothing Smith can do to stop her.
Could Smith split the pile of stolen files in half and simply pursue charges on half the files? Assuming jeopardy is attached on the case for the first traunch of the files and Trump is found innocent because of Cannon’s trickery, Smith could then file a new case with the second traunch of the files and no jeopardy from the prior trial would apply because he’d be seeking prosecution on “new” files?
Could Smith split the pile of stolen files in half and simply pursue charges on half the files?
Only if the cases are separate criminal acts. If I murder someone in Philadelphia and six months later, I murder someone else in Pittsburgh, the DA can prosecute me for one of the two murders and keep the other case in his back pocket in case something goes wrong to ensure that I stay in jail.
But let’s say I only killed one person. On a typical murder charge, there’s usually a small list of felonies (Murder, assault, illegal weapon possession, civil rights violations, etc. etc. etc.). The DA can’t bring a weak case against me for murder, then decide to try again and charge me for a weapons violation in order to keep me in jail, and then an assault charge if that fails too, etc. That is essentially an end-run around double jeopardy and is explicitly forbidden. If it weren’t, the double jeopardy protections of the 5th amendment would cease to exist as the lawyer could just divvy up the charges among an endless stream of cases until something finally sticks.
Uh huh, im sure conservatives will face consequences for their actions any day now.
Hey to be fair, Obama also got away with wearing a khaki suit, and use Dijon sennep on a sandwich. DIJON for crying out loud!!!
Can you imagine a president wearing a TAN SUIT?!? It’s outrageous!
If you look closely you will notice that all three of those suits are worn by white Republicans.
Totally different.
Oh damn, you are right. I missed that
Also like the gif of the truck racing towards the pole.
I gotcha
You beautiful bastard!
That’ll be the day
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The 11th Circuit has previously acted with haste to correct Cannon’s errors when those have been brought before the 11th Circuit. And this one is the most glaring error of all, by a longshot.
Smith is going to put something before the full circuit. He’s already put down on paper several times about how Trump just wants to delay everything for as long as possible, and this kind of error only serves that purpose.
Ethics are for everyone else!
“You heard evidence during the trial that President Trump exercised that authority, at times verbally and at times without using formal procedures, while he was President,” Trump’s lawyers wrote in the hypothetical jury instructions. “I instruct you that those declassification decisions are examples of valid and legally appropriate uses of President Trump’s declassification authority while he was President of the United States.”
I think that being in Trump’s proximity must warp your perception of reality; he is so at odds with the factual world and so strident in how aggressively he puts forth his own personal reality which changes day to day, that the brain just can’t cope with it and cognitive dissonance becomes the whole of its operation. I can think of no other reason why a team of actual real-life lawyers would submit something like this and say with a straight face that the judge should be handing it out as the official jury instructions.
Because they believe they won’t have to, I’m almost sure of it - or at least, that it won’t matter in the long run. The hope is that they keep the meter running long enough for Trump to win in November, and then they don’t have to worry about how stupid they look because I’m sure Trump has promised them nice cushy desks at the DOJ when he wins.
Sounds like cancer
Wake me when the notice is carried out.
Enjoy your loooooong nap.
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“Judge” Cannon should be tried as a traitor to the US and the constitution.
Special counsel Jack Smith’s team on Tuesday pushed back against an order the judge overseeing former President Donald Trump’s classified documents case.
That’s remarkably poorly worded or a word got left out. Journalism has gone to shit for quality editing. I’ve been hassling the editor at Ars Technica for fucking years about it. One thanked me. The current one seems to treat me as an annoyance for pointing out mistakes. Do your job and I won’t email you.
