If no one votes because they don’t think they can win, they’re right. Vote anyway, you never know, you might unseat a local candidate and begin making incremental progress. And to be honest, the local level is always going to be more impactful on your day to day life anyway.
But if you don’t cast the vote, you’re going to be in the minority forever, along with everyone else who agrees with you and does the same.
Voting is misdirection of the masses. It’s the wrong answer to the wrong question.
While you are directing your anger at the citizen voters on the other team, or the people not voting, the lobbyists are the people with the real greenbacked votes that actually count.
So what’s your solution? Do nothing and let the fascists take over? Start a revolution that will (at best) get put down quickly and nothing changes?
The only way to really show force is to do a general strike, but no one has the community support networks to outlast the capital class to get shit done. So for now, we either vote to keep shit from spiralling or we give in and accept the boot.
Win, lose, it doesn’t matter.
Spoken from a place of privilege, where the consequences of your choice don’t affect those around you. It matters to me who wins and loses, because one person winning means the rest of us lose and may not have a chance again. I have people I love who may not have rights in a year or two depending on how things play out.
So what’s your solution? Do nothing and let the fascists take over?
Don’t fall for the misdirection. Sure, vote. But don’t belive it changes anything.
Start a revolution that will (at best) get put down quickly and nothing changes?
Take the occupy wall street approach, not the BLM approach.
The only way to really show force is to do a general strike, but no one has the community support networks to outlast the capital class to get shit done.
Yes yes yes. A one day strike. A one hour strike. A Japanese bus driver refuse fares strike (if applicable).
So for now, we either vote to keep shit from spiralling
My disillusion sees this as both easy to do and damaging because that’s all people do once every 4 years. Dur. I did my part, I voted.
Spoken from a place of privilege, where the consequences of your choice don’t affect those around you.
You don’t need privilege to observe when your vote doesn’t matter.
It matters to me who wins and loses, because one person winning means the rest of us lose and may not have a chance again.
It doesn’t matter who wins or loses because the corporatocracy wins if the wheel lands on red or blue.
I have people I love who may not have rights in a year or two depending on how things play out.
Misdirection again, although this time with serious side effects. The bigger the difference between the parties in social policies, the smaller the difference in economic policies. Corporatocracy wins either way.
This is incredibly not the time to be worrying solely about the corporatocracy. We are very close to armed men kicking in doors and putting bags over people’s heads.
The corporatocracy has bred a monster in right-wing fascism, a monster which historically they have often failed to maintain control of. I wouldn’t trust them to be able to manage this one. If Trump wins, or seizes power, they’ll have the tiger by the tail.
Yeah this is bullshit and I question the sincerity of anyone saying this. We know empirically that areas that tend to vote left-wing have a harder experience in voting compared to areas that don’t. If voting didn’t matter there wouldn’t be a targeted effort since 1865 to make it more difficult for some groups over other groups.
People have quite literally risked getting into sent to federal, rape in the shower, prison for decades to prevent black people from voting. You don’t do that if you think voting doesn’t matter.
You wrote about “ancient” history. Your points were correct but irrelevant.
On January 21, 2010, the court issued a 5–4 decision in favor of Citizens United that struck down the BCRA restrictions on independent political expenditures by corporations as violations of the First Amendment,
It doesn’t matter who wins if the corporations have bought both sides.
The more of them that give up, the more the Republicans take over the smaller, less significant roles and then you end up with Republicans doing the districting, deciding the cases in the lower courts, twisting the law to suit their agenda. There are definitely blue states that went red this way. The population stayed blue, but didn’t vote enough in the little things and the reds took over the decision making and now you have a red state.
Local elections aren’t sexy or entertaining like presidential elections. Voters don’t become engaged. Yet, local elections will have the biggest impact on voters.
Looking at how fucked the right has been in many elections they were expected to come out on top in, I wouldn’t be very surprised if the Republicans lose in some areas both sides are assuming they’ll win in and typically do this time around. Need every vote though.
What I’m saying is that the set of swing states might be different this year than it has typically been in the past. There’s some very good reasons for people who usually vote Republican to vote otherwise this election. There’s a vocal subset of the party and the mass media seems to be trying to push a narrative that Trump has a good chance, but they might not have support from the usual voters who are mostly staying quiet because they know as well as everyone else that there’s no benefit from trying to reason with them.
There’s a chance that they might discover during this election just why the quiet parts were previously kept quiet. And saying them on platforms that won’t try to shut them up with lots of simps eating it up doesn’t mean society has accepted that worldview.
Yes. For one when the loser loses the less they win WV or WY the harder it is to claim it was stolen. Let’s say Biden got 30% in WV (about normal lol) that’s still 3 in ten people. That sends a message and it helps legitimize votes in super blue areas.
Democrats voting in west Virginia got us to a slim democratic majority in the Senate in 2020 which allowed passage of the infrastructure act and the inflation reduction act.
This kind of thinking gets conservative justices power.
Let’s take an extreme example.
Does a Democrat vote in Wyoming or West Virginia really make a difference?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy
If no one votes because they don’t think they can win, they’re right. Vote anyway, you never know, you might unseat a local candidate and begin making incremental progress. And to be honest, the local level is always going to be more impactful on your day to day life anyway.
But if you don’t cast the vote, you’re going to be in the minority forever, along with everyone else who agrees with you and does the same.
Counter opinion.
Win, lose, it doesn’t matter.
Voting is a pressure release valve that allows the status quo to exist.
It tricks the population into thinking it has an ounce of control over a country that serves it corporations
Voting is misdirection of the masses. It’s the wrong answer to the wrong question.
While you are directing your anger at the citizen voters on the other team, or the people not voting, the lobbyists are the people with the real greenbacked votes that actually count.
So what’s your solution? Do nothing and let the fascists take over? Start a revolution that will (at best) get put down quickly and nothing changes?
The only way to really show force is to do a general strike, but no one has the community support networks to outlast the capital class to get shit done. So for now, we either vote to keep shit from spiralling or we give in and accept the boot.
Spoken from a place of privilege, where the consequences of your choice don’t affect those around you. It matters to me who wins and loses, because one person winning means the rest of us lose and may not have a chance again. I have people I love who may not have rights in a year or two depending on how things play out.
But hey, I guess that part doesn’t matter to you.
Don’t feed the troll. knock knock is no different than the subject of this thread.
Thanks for the heads up. Between their reply and looking through their comments, I can see you’re right.
Don’t fall for the misdirection. Sure, vote. But don’t belive it changes anything.
Take the occupy wall street approach, not the BLM approach.
Yes yes yes. A one day strike. A one hour strike. A Japanese bus driver refuse fares strike (if applicable).
My disillusion sees this as both easy to do and damaging because that’s all people do once every 4 years. Dur. I did my part, I voted.
You don’t need privilege to observe when your vote doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t matter who wins or loses because the corporatocracy wins if the wheel lands on red or blue.
Misdirection again, although this time with serious side effects. The bigger the difference between the parties in social policies, the smaller the difference in economic policies. Corporatocracy wins either way.
This is incredibly not the time to be worrying solely about the corporatocracy. We are very close to armed men kicking in doors and putting bags over people’s heads.
Ironically, the corporatocracy will stop that from happening, at least on a large scale.
Profits need to be maintained.
The corporatocracy has bred a monster in right-wing fascism, a monster which historically they have often failed to maintain control of. I wouldn’t trust them to be able to manage this one. If Trump wins, or seizes power, they’ll have the tiger by the tail.
Democracy is not perfect but it’s the system you have and voting is how you participate.
Corporatocracy is the system we have and money is how you participate. The only laws that are passed are ones that benefit corporations.
Have a potato Boris
https://publicintegrity.org/politics/state-politics/copy-paste-legislate/you-elected-them-to-write-new-laws-theyre-letting-corporations-do-it-instead/
Yeah this is bullshit and I question the sincerity of anyone saying this. We know empirically that areas that tend to vote left-wing have a harder experience in voting compared to areas that don’t. If voting didn’t matter there wouldn’t be a targeted effort since 1865 to make it more difficult for some groups over other groups.
People have quite literally risked getting into sent to federal, rape in the shower, prison for decades to prevent black people from voting. You don’t do that if you think voting doesn’t matter.
I’m not denying many people care about voting. I’m saying due to corporatocracy it is irrelevant.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Your vote is important.
Hey good job not responding at all to what I wrote. I am definitely convinced now
You wrote about “ancient” history. Your points were correct but irrelevant.
It doesn’t matter who wins if the corporations have bought both sides.
No
Maybe the Republicans keep winning in Wyoming because too many Democrats think like you.
You never know until you vote. So go vote.
The more of them that give up, the more the Republicans take over the smaller, less significant roles and then you end up with Republicans doing the districting, deciding the cases in the lower courts, twisting the law to suit their agenda. There are definitely blue states that went red this way. The population stayed blue, but didn’t vote enough in the little things and the reds took over the decision making and now you have a red state.
Local elections aren’t sexy or entertaining like presidential elections. Voters don’t become engaged. Yet, local elections will have the biggest impact on voters.
Very strong argument. I don’t disagree. I would also add corporate sponsored lobbying into the picture you painted.
Looking at how fucked the right has been in many elections they were expected to come out on top in, I wouldn’t be very surprised if the Republicans lose in some areas both sides are assuming they’ll win in and typically do this time around. Need every vote though.
In swing states you certainly have a point.
In a state that is deeply one colour or the other, you don’t need every vote.
What I’m saying is that the set of swing states might be different this year than it has typically been in the past. There’s some very good reasons for people who usually vote Republican to vote otherwise this election. There’s a vocal subset of the party and the mass media seems to be trying to push a narrative that Trump has a good chance, but they might not have support from the usual voters who are mostly staying quiet because they know as well as everyone else that there’s no benefit from trying to reason with them.
There’s a chance that they might discover during this election just why the quiet parts were previously kept quiet. And saying them on platforms that won’t try to shut them up with lots of simps eating it up doesn’t mean society has accepted that worldview.
Personally, delusion in democracy doesn’t stop me voting, but it does depressing me when the result is announced and hindsight confirms it’s value.
The presidential election is not the only election.
It’s the one where everyone tells you to vote.
Every time I try to ask anti-Biden people where they live so I can suggest what to do in their local races, they ghost me.
Probably because there’s no good candidates running in Novgorod.
I’ve not mentioned Biden.
Is the “your vote counts” message just as strong for your local races? I suspect not.
That’s what I’m saying, it’s more difficult to speak specifically about local races
Yes. For one when the loser loses the less they win WV or WY the harder it is to claim it was stolen. Let’s say Biden got 30% in WV (about normal lol) that’s still 3 in ten people. That sends a message and it helps legitimize votes in super blue areas.
Democrats voting in west Virginia got us to a slim democratic majority in the Senate in 2020 which allowed passage of the infrastructure act and the inflation reduction act.
Yes. The difference is slight but it is measurable.