They’ll never compete against online shopping prices or convenience. Making it harder to traverse isn’t going to fix that. But it will make it a nicer day out for tourists.
I’ll actively avoid it and take other routes. When I did removals in London, we’d go out of our way to avoid similar roads, they’re always extra hassle. It makes loads of sense to prioritise pedestrians
I know, but I’m a rebel! I don’t just break the rules, I make the rules! Which I then break, which is somewhat counterproductive but that’s rebels for you.
~Also, I suspect it was at least 15 years ago when I last drove down it!~
Except most studies say that when you limit car traffic and have the streets be walkable more people walk through that street and the business of most shop increases?
Have you ever actually walked down oxford street?
The pavements are normally crammed, and there are 3 million cars a minute fighting for the road space.
Adding 5x as much space for pedestrians is a fantastic idea.
It’ll be a tiny, tiny minority of people not visiting OS because they can’t park/taxi/bus to the shop front, and a huge number of people going there because it’s a nice experience with no traffic.
I think there are disabled people that aren’t able to travel autonomously/independently and that the public transportation available is a godsend to them.
It’s a difficult one, as you can’t optimise for everyone. However if someone is really so disabled that they can’t travel independently to the point that walking down a road is problematic then they are really going to struggle with Oxford St. today.
All the busses and taxis running down the middle of the road will prevent them from crossing to access all the other shops. They would probably be better off visiting one of the many other shopping areas rather than a tourist trap.
The whole world isn’t even allowed to drive up there now, so why would anyone, let alone me, argue for that? Don’t be ridiculous.
The whole sub-thread was me saying that this affects some people in negative ways and everyone acting like what I said is the worst thing ever.
Not surprising given that my initial comment was me effectively commenting that the time of big shopping streets is at an end due to the fact that it’s cheaper online but that it would be good for tourism.
I didn’t even use big words, I don’t know what there is to be confused about. 😵💫
I’m a carer for my disabled mother, but I’m always a huge believer of fuck cars. I’m super excited about all initiatives that reduce the number of cars on our roads as long as they put alternatives in place. That said, my mum does most of her shopping online, but occasionally she has days when she feels well enough to get outside and see things. So when I see things like this, I instantly think about ways she would be impacted. Under no circumstances am I advocating for a reversal of this decision in any way. But if they added some form of short transportation, I think it would increase accessibility for people like my mum. The decision isn’t mine to make or flesh out for feasibility, but I would be a shit son if I didn’t speak up about things I’m cognizant of and maybe one day, someone far smarter than I will provide a solution.
You are right that they can’t compete directly with online shopping, but that’s not why people go there. Studies have consistently shown that closing shopping areas to through-traffic is good for businesses, precisely because it makes them easier, not harder, to access. Shops don’t benefit in any way from hundreds of cars (or, in this case, buses and taxis) driving past them!
EDIT: Thought I should link to a specific study rather than just vaguely waving at them. There are many to choose from but this one is particularly interesting because it’s from the US, where they generally don’t have good cycling and public transport infrastructure, but it still shows benefits for businesses:
While we observed some mixed results, we generally found that street improvements have either positive impacts on corridor economic and business performance or non-significant impacts.
It’s important to note that nothing always works everywhere (‘some mixed results’, here), but the balance of evidence is in favour of at least trialling traffic reduction schemes in commercial districts.
Yeah generally for clothes, booze and a quite a lot of stuff online works out cheaper. For buying some basics vs supermarkets or a Savers etc, it can be pricier until you start buying multiples.
Harder to traverse for whom? Nobody drives down there currently so this would be no different. This will actually make it much easier for the tens of thousands of people that walk there every day
They’ll never compete against online shopping prices or convenience. Making it harder to traverse isn’t going to fix that. But it will make it a nicer day out for tourists.
Who drives down Oxford Street? I think I’ve done it once in 20 years. Other roads are available.
This. Roads used to be for people not cars
I’ll actively avoid it and take other routes. When I did removals in London, we’d go out of our way to avoid similar roads, they’re always extra hassle. It makes loads of sense to prioritise pedestrians
Whenever I have walked down there it’s mostly buses and taxis with a few cars peppered in.
Been ages since I’ve walked along there but I remember far more people than cars and at times the street is completely empty.
It’s been closed to cars for about 15 years
I know, but I’m a rebel! I don’t just break the rules, I make the rules! Which I then break, which is somewhat counterproductive but that’s rebels for you.
~Also, I suspect it was at least 15 years ago when I last drove down it!~
😂
Isn’t that what Oxford Street is, more or less a tourist attraction? I don’t imagine many people going for their weekly shop.
Except most studies say that when you limit car traffic and have the streets be walkable more people walk through that street and the business of most shop increases?
Have you ever actually walked down oxford street?
The pavements are normally crammed, and there are 3 million cars a minute fighting for the road space.
Adding 5x as much space for pedestrians is a fantastic idea.
It’ll be a tiny, tiny minority of people not visiting OS because they can’t park/taxi/bus to the shop front, and a huge number of people going there because it’s a nice experience with no traffic.
Sorry, I weren’t looking through my ableist lens properly.
So you think that adding more space for wheelchairs is a bad thing?
Gotcha.
These carbrains always start pearl clutching about the disabled at times like these
I think there are disabled people that aren’t able to travel autonomously/independently and that the public transportation available is a godsend to them.
It’s a difficult one, as you can’t optimise for everyone. However if someone is really so disabled that they can’t travel independently to the point that walking down a road is problematic then they are really going to struggle with Oxford St. today.
All the busses and taxis running down the middle of the road will prevent them from crossing to access all the other shops. They would probably be better off visiting one of the many other shopping areas rather than a tourist trap.
Are you arguing the whole world needs to allow driving up to businesses so disabled people can shop?
The whole world isn’t even allowed to drive up there now, so why would anyone, let alone me, argue for that? Don’t be ridiculous.
The whole sub-thread was me saying that this affects some people in negative ways and everyone acting like what I said is the worst thing ever.
Not surprising given that my initial comment was me effectively commenting that the time of big shopping streets is at an end due to the fact that it’s cheaper online but that it would be good for tourism.
I didn’t even use big words, I don’t know what there is to be confused about. 😵💫
Wouldnt disabled folk already shop online?
I was taking issue with the idea that making people walk farther to a place is always bad for disabled people.
I’m a carer for my disabled mother, but I’m always a huge believer of fuck cars. I’m super excited about all initiatives that reduce the number of cars on our roads as long as they put alternatives in place. That said, my mum does most of her shopping online, but occasionally she has days when she feels well enough to get outside and see things. So when I see things like this, I instantly think about ways she would be impacted. Under no circumstances am I advocating for a reversal of this decision in any way. But if they added some form of short transportation, I think it would increase accessibility for people like my mum. The decision isn’t mine to make or flesh out for feasibility, but I would be a shit son if I didn’t speak up about things I’m cognizant of and maybe one day, someone far smarter than I will provide a solution.
You are right that they can’t compete directly with online shopping, but that’s not why people go there. Studies have consistently shown that closing shopping areas to through-traffic is good for businesses, precisely because it makes them easier, not harder, to access. Shops don’t benefit in any way from hundreds of cars (or, in this case, buses and taxis) driving past them!
EDIT: Thought I should link to a specific study rather than just vaguely waving at them. There are many to choose from but this one is particularly interesting because it’s from the US, where they generally don’t have good cycling and public transport infrastructure, but it still shows benefits for businesses:
It’s important to note that nothing always works everywhere (‘some mixed results’, here), but the balance of evidence is in favour of at least trialling traffic reduction schemes in commercial districts.
i have never understood this, online shopping is hilariously much more expensive and inconvenient than just popping down to the shops
also removing cars almost always makes it easier to get around, not sure why you’d think it would make things harder?
On what planet?
Yeah generally for clothes, booze and a quite a lot of stuff online works out cheaper. For buying some basics vs supermarkets or a Savers etc, it can be pricier until you start buying multiples.
The price conscious aren’t going to Oxford street, did you even read the article?
I read it, and there was a weird claim that pedestrianisation would make it harder for the poor’s to access.
Because they couldn’t either take the underground, or a bus, to the end of the road.
Harder to traverse for whom? Nobody drives down there currently so this would be no different. This will actually make it much easier for the tens of thousands of people that walk there every day