I’m from Australia and I’ve started calling all groups of people yall because it’s gender neutral… very unaustralian term, and I love so much the irony of iconic southern terms being used to support trans activism
I’m German and I use y’all all the time when speaking English. it’s funny, most of my English is from the internet so it’s the most crazy mix of english
Why bother with importing y’all when we already have yous (or youse depending on how you want to spell it)? Or you could just treat ‘you guys’ as gender neutral, it effectively is these days with how people use it.
That’s rough. That said as a trans woman (no idea what a trans-femme is) I don’t see a problem with it in the context of “you guys”.
I use “dude” as a general exclamation towards my own also-trans gf sometimes even. Really y’all oughta chill on the language policing. If you pass people will treat you like the gender you look like, if you don’t, they won’t really, no matter how much they try, and your main issue is not passing and thus money which can fix that, not other people and their language use.
A trans femme is someone who tries to make themselves look more ‘femme’ often through taking estrogen etc, it can refer to trans women as well but also refers to those who don’t completely identify or at all as a woman, see nonbinary folks for example. It’s kind of a catch all term.
Who said anything bout language policing? I was merely saying for myself. I think passing is a pointless binary concept and not even all cis women ‘pass’. So I’m not all that interested in passing 100%, just being happy to be me.
The US. And yes, I will continue to use the phrase “you guys” because it’s a phrase that means “you people”. I can’t anticipate every illogical thing that will offend people. If someone called me out on it in person I would try not to use the phrase to address them specifically but I would also think they were being very silly.
It always confuses me when people say ‘offend’ people, because usually it is not offense they feel etc.
Well, that’s not a very fair way of treating/thinking of people, some people are going to be hurt or upset by certain things and it’s better to understand that we all have emotions and they are not pointless just because you see no value in them i.e. ‘illogical’. It’s better to work together and find ways of communicating that aren’t genuinely hurtful ioo.
People who claim “guys” is gender neutral would most often only count men when asked the question “How many guys did you sleep with in your life?”
Until I find a single person who immediately thinks of people of any gender at that question, I will not fall for the internalized misogyny of “‘guys’ is gender neutral” meme. (Same with “dudes” and all the other ones I’ve seen over the years. I’ve even seen someone say “bro” is gender neutral.)
It’s only gender neutral when used as a direct address, as an alternative to “y’all” when you’re actually talking TO people:
“Hey guys!” or “Later, guys!”.
When you’re talking ABOUT people - “I saw some guys at the store” - it’s not neutral. In that case you’re essentially saying “I saw some dudes at the store.”
It’s basically the difference between using it as a greeting or direct address versus using it to DESCRIBE people. As a direct address in most of the US it is absolutely considered gender neutral. I’ve come around to “y’all” though :)
Edit: more precisely&concisely–
Vocative case = gender-neutral
Regular plural noun = masculine
I feel like y’all is the newer American version of 2nd person plural, while yous/youse/yinz are the non-American English counterparts.
I have always used you guys in a gender neutral manner historically, but people occasionally got offended by that. So I started using y’all several years ago and it’s been going pretty good. Although I did initially spell it like ya’ll until someone corrected me on reddit 😅
I’m from Australia and I’ve started calling all groups of people yall because it’s gender neutral… very unaustralian term, and I love so much the irony of iconic southern terms being used to support trans activism
I’m German and I use y’all all the time when speaking English. it’s funny, most of my English is from the internet so it’s the most crazy mix of english
Why bother with importing y’all when we already have yous (or youse depending on how you want to spell it)? Or you could just treat ‘you guys’ as gender neutral, it effectively is these days with how people use it.
Youse is too damn bogan for my taste
absolutely this
youse and torlet
Fair enough, it does have associations there. Pretty sure I’d toss y’all in the same basket though if I heard anyone trying to make it a thing…
As an Australian, why bother importing “y’all” when everyone is already “mate”?
I was going to say something similar, but thinking everyone is “cunt”.
Yes, it’s gender neutral.
Too right, mate.
A lot of trans femmes myself included cannot see ‘guys’ as gender neutral no matter how hard we try and so do not like it.
That’s rough. That said as a trans woman (no idea what a trans-femme is) I don’t see a problem with it in the context of “you guys”.
I use “dude” as a general exclamation towards my own also-trans gf sometimes even. Really y’all oughta chill on the language policing. If you pass people will treat you like the gender you look like, if you don’t, they won’t really, no matter how much they try, and your main issue is not passing and thus money which can fix that, not other people and their language use.
Oof. Passing is an archaic concept, just use the language for people that doesn’t make them feel uncomfortable.
A trans femme is someone who tries to make themselves look more ‘femme’ often through taking estrogen etc, it can refer to trans women as well but also refers to those who don’t completely identify or at all as a woman, see nonbinary folks for example. It’s kind of a catch all term.
Who said anything bout language policing? I was merely saying for myself. I think passing is a pointless binary concept and not even all cis women ‘pass’. So I’m not all that interested in passing 100%, just being happy to be me.
I have regularly called groups of females “you guys” since childhood. It’s extremely neutral in a lot of the country.
Okay, but not everybody is going to be comfortable with it and so are you saying you would not change your speech for them?
Also which country?
The US. And yes, I will continue to use the phrase “you guys” because it’s a phrase that means “you people”. I can’t anticipate every illogical thing that will offend people. If someone called me out on it in person I would try not to use the phrase to address them specifically but I would also think they were being very silly.
It always confuses me when people say ‘offend’ people, because usually it is not offense they feel etc.
Well, that’s not a very fair way of treating/thinking of people, some people are going to be hurt or upset by certain things and it’s better to understand that we all have emotions and they are not pointless just because you see no value in them i.e. ‘illogical’. It’s better to work together and find ways of communicating that aren’t genuinely hurtful ioo.
People who claim “guys” is gender neutral would most often only count men when asked the question “How many guys did you sleep with in your life?”
Until I find a single person who immediately thinks of people of any gender at that question, I will not fall for the internalized misogyny of “‘guys’ is gender neutral” meme. (Same with “dudes” and all the other ones I’ve seen over the years. I’ve even seen someone say “bro” is gender neutral.)
It’s only gender neutral when used as a direct address, as an alternative to “y’all” when you’re actually talking TO people:
“Hey guys!” or “Later, guys!”.
When you’re talking ABOUT people - “I saw some guys at the store” - it’s not neutral. In that case you’re essentially saying “I saw some dudes at the store.”
It’s basically the difference between using it as a greeting or direct address versus using it to DESCRIBE people. As a direct address in most of the US it is absolutely considered gender neutral. I’ve come around to “y’all” though :)
Edit: more precisely&concisely–
Vocative case = gender-neutral
Regular plural noun = masculine
Do we have yous/youse? According to my understanding that’s technically not a real word yet, it’s slang.
2nd person singular used to be thou/thee back in the middle ages, but it all eventually melded into you.
I feel like y’all is the newer American version of 2nd person plural, while yous/youse/yinz are the non-American English counterparts.
I have always used you guys in a gender neutral manner historically, but people occasionally got offended by that. So I started using y’all several years ago and it’s been going pretty good. Although I did initially spell it like ya’ll until someone corrected me on reddit 😅