Because to me, they seem like de facto "Agree and “Disagree” buttons, whether or not it was the intent.
Yes. That’s how people use it, so that’s what it is. The original intention doesn’t matter.
My upvotes are for posts I like, downvotes I don’t really use except when the content is factually wrong or misleading
It’s supposed to be about relevance and moderation of abusive content, not agreement, but that’s not usually the case.
Upvote: I agree at least for the most part.
Downvote: I have problems with the general content, or the source of the content.
No vote: I’m not going to downvote you, but I don’t have to upvote you either.
No vote is the best way to let something just die out. Any sort of engagement would make it higher in the popular “hot” category so no action is the best for “this is shit and no one should see it”.
They should be “this is worthy to be seen by many” and “this is not”. Sometimes that also overlaps with my agreement with the post.
This is how I use the vote arrows too.
I think I’ve gotten a little idealistic since moving to lemmy because I definitely used the votes as agree/disagree on Reddit, because it was clear that was what the hivemind decided it was for, who was I to argue.
In the olden days there was ‘reddiquette’ which still existed on smaller, non default subs. You’d downvote poor contributions and up vote good ones
It was literally in the reddiquette that you’re not supposed to use them like that, but in practice, you’re absolutely right and that’s how they’re used.
Practically yes, despite the way that they ought to be used.
It’s such a shame. Lemmy should be a place where we can collectively share ideas and debate openly. Comments and posts should only ever be downvoted if they’re off topic, hateful or misleading. However, in reality people get downvoted mostly because someone simply doesn’t like or wholly agree with them.
It’s still better here than reddits awful circlejerks and echo chambers, but not by much and we should be wary of devolving to a state where people are disincentivized to post because they have an idea or opinion that may only be slightly off kilter to the hive mind.
Just to let you know, you posted your reply 3 times. I downvoted the other 2 (consider deleting them).
Yes I noticed, sorry, bad internet connection, I have deleted them now.
Do you mean by seem that people here seem to use them like that, or that they just seem like that to you?
I try to reserve downvotes for people who are actively harming the discussion. Downvoting good comments just because you disagree is pretty shit behaviour, and I guess the same could be said about upvoting bad comments because you agree with the opinion.
I think this is the best answer?
I’ll also suggest that downvotes can be used for something that is actively wrong, as in deliberate, but I think it’s abused for people who may be ignorantly wrong but not maliciously so. Once the downvote train starts sometimes people can’t catch a break even if they make amends. Really does a disservice and disincentivizes to people’s ability to admit being wrong or learn something new.
people who may be ignorantly wrong but not maliciously so.
I think this one is a bit blurry anyway. If the person had every chance to learn, it’s on them.
Yeah, on the internet it’s really hard to tell if someone just doesn’t get it, is trolling, or is maliciously ignorant. Sometimes a quick check of their recent comments can reveal their MO and tell you who they are.
There are many ways people use them.
The way I use them and I wish everyone did is:
Upvote = I agree with this, this is what I would have posted too if I had seen the comment earlier, this is extraordinarily funny or insightful and I want more people to see it
Downvote = I think this doesn’t meaningfully contribute to the discussion at all, it would have been better if it hadn’t been posted, others shouldn’t have to read it
The vast majority of things doesn’t fall into either of these categories, so I neither upvote nor downvote them; if I merely disagree with something, I write a counterargument but do not downvote.
I think there’s a shorter way to say this.
Upvote means promote. I think this should be seen.
Downvote means demote. I don’t think this should be seen.
Yes, but a lot of people “don’t think this should be seen” simply because they disagree with it, no matter how much of a good-faith on-topic post it is. That was a main point.
Which is what I’m kinda getting at. It’s always going to be up to the individual. Unfortunately there’s no way to force any kind of consensus.
I wish this is how people actually used the feature. It should be used to sort posts/messages based on the quality of it. I often even upvote the people who disagree with me as long as I can see they put some thought into the response.
dopamine button
fake activism button
I thought so too, but about a year ago or so this same question popped up, and some of the comments were really eye opening.
The essence of it was something like this: if you use the upvote/downvote buttons as agree/disagree, then you’re contributing to turning this platform into an echo chamber, which is the particular thing that makes social media such a shitty place.
You should use this feature on posts to indicate if it’s relevant to the community’s rules or not, meets the community’s guidelines or not, contains factual, useful information or not.
On comments, you should use it to indicate if it’s relevant to the topic or not, valid argument to what they’re replying to or not, regardless of your own opinion.
A great example someone commented was, when he explained they were browsing lemmy together with his girlfriend, they had a great laugh at a comment, and then he promptly downvoted it, to her surprise. And it’s because, even though the comment was fantastic, it was off topic, it wasn’t useful for the actual conversation.
Oh, and actually, there was a thing, even on Reddit - believe it or not - which acted as upvote/downvote guidelines, describing how you should use those buttons.
I’ll try to link the original post here if I find it.
Edit: Here’s the comment I was referring to on the original post: https://lemmy.world/comment/5219066
That’s how I treat them. Maybe with a bit more nuance: I’ll upvote for something funny, informative things, or general good takes. I’ll downvote if someone has a bad take, is unnecessarily mean, or is generally incoherent.
If the comment doesn’t spark a reaction I just keep scrolling.
Often too I’ll upvote a highly downvoted comment because I don’t think it deserved to be downvoted as much as it was, even if it’s one I’d otherwise downvote. Unless it’s horrible, in which case I’ll pile the fuck on
It a comment was well thought out but I disagree, I comment or keep scrolling.
People are too lazy to do that, so they downvote.
What you say and what you describe are not the same. Your explanation is literally how it was explained on the other site. So you are better than you think you are. =)
And I do it the same as you. Something I disagree with or don’t like but is reasonably argued and not mean or full of any -isms? No vote from me.
It really depends on where you use them.
In some communities I’ll use upvotes as a way to track which posts I’ve seen.
In news communties I always downvote tabloid sources and clickbait headlines, regardless of content.
But when it comes to the comments, it’s mostly an agree/disagree button.
An upvote should be for quality content/discussion. This might be a well researched comment, a good joke, or just something that leads the discussion in a meaningful or interesting way. Generally, things I think should be valued or shared. There will obviously be bias, but my opinion isn’t the basis of my decision. I try to upvote good-faith or thorough arguments I disagree with.
Downvotes are for low-quality and unhelpful content that I think shouldn’t be spread. This doesn’t have to be irrelevant or against the community rules, but often is. Things I might downvote include overused reposts, unnecessarily rude or insulting comments, low quality comments (IE someone trying to argue a well cited comment with an anecdote and nothing else), or spam.
I upvote content that may be useful or interesting to others, content I agree with and good jokes.
I try to only downvote spam, misinformation and any troll content.
Pretty much this. With maybe the addition of downvoting assholes. You can be right but there is no need to act like a smug prick about something.
This is far more succinct than I could have put it. Same.
