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voidx@futurology.todayM to Futurology@futurology.todayEnglish · 7 months ago

Sodium batteries hit 458 Wh/kg: New material closes gap with lithium

interestingengineering.com

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Sodium batteries hit 458 Wh/kg: New material closes gap with lithium

interestingengineering.com

voidx@futurology.todayM to Futurology@futurology.todayEnglish · 7 months ago
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Developed by an international team of interdisciplinary researchers, the material could boost the energy performance of sodium batteries.
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  • Toto@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Wish they gave the current energy density of lithium batteries for comparison.

    • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      Here’s a neat comparison of how different chemistries preform. Higher up is higher energy per weight.

      comparison

      Looks like this is pretty old though

    • eltrain123@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      It’s a range, but LFP is generally in the 90-160wh/kg and NMC (lithium manganese cobalt oxide) tops out around 275 wh/kg.

      It’s not quite double, but doubles the density of most mass manufactured cells. Time will tell if it gets to scale, but it’s a step in the right direction.

      • Toto@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Feeling stupid: doesn’t this mean more energy per kilogram is possible with Na cells?

      • DeathsEmbrace@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        deleted by creator

      • DeathsEmbrace@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        Lithium ion is around 265-280wh/kg but hydrogen is already in the kWh

        • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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          7 months ago

          Isn’t most of the weight with hydrogen coming from the high pressure tank and gas regulator?

          My impression is that the gas is light but whole system hydrogen is pretty heavy.

          edit: Did some more reading. Hydrogen is still competitive on a Wh/kg basis, but worse on a Wh/L basis. Larger tanks are harder to fit in passenger cars than batteries and hydrogen’s poor whole system efficiency has kept fuel prices high while lithium batteries and solar power keep getting cheaper.

          • humanspiral@lemmy.caBanned
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            Removed by mod

            • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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              7 months ago

              This makes hydrogen even more expensive and pushes it further into niches which need maximum range at any cost.

              • humanspiral@lemmy.caBanned
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                • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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                  7 months ago

                  Where are you finding this cheap renewable H2?

                  Or is this a theoretical future development?

  • AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
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    7 months ago

    Your next spicy pillow may be a salty pillow

    • Isoprenoid@programming.dev
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      7 months ago

      I work in the electronics industry and had never heard the term “spicy pillow”. I’ll hand in my badge.

      https://www.powerbankexpert.com/lithium-battery-spicy-pillow/

      • ryedaft@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        There’s a Lemmy community for pictures of spicy pillows. It is good.

      • threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        !spicypillows@lemmy.world

  • Diplomjodler@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Good to hear. Let’s hope it actually works at scale.

  • I_am_10_squirrels@beehaw.org
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    7 months ago

    Vanadium is relatively abundant, and is produced as a byproduct from steel smelting. This is nice since more carbon intensive steps aren’t required.

  • massive_bereavement@fedia.io
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    7 months ago

    We’re increasingly eating so much salt that at some point maybe The Matrix plot will end up making sense.

    • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      7 months ago

      I wonder what the machines will use all the microplastics for.

      • Aqarius@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Nanomachines, son!

  • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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    7 months ago

    Here’s the original press report https://uh.edu/news-events/stories/2024/december/12202024-canepa-batteries.php

  • humanspiral@lemmy.caBanned
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  • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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    7 months ago

    Sodium batteries are thermal batteries, right? So they need turbines to recover the energy into electricity? Or are these chemical sodium batteries?

    • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Chemical. It’s in the article:

      Battery prototype

      The researchers also created a battery prototype using the new material, NaxV2(PO4)3, demonstrating significant energy storage improvements. NaxV2(PO4)3, part of a group called “Na superionic conductors” or NaSICONs, is designed to let sodium ions move smoothly in and out of the battery during charging and discharging, according to a press release.

      The material has a unique way of handling sodium, allowing it to work as a single-phase system. This means it remains stable as it releases or takes in sodium ions. This allows the NaSICON to remain stable during charging and discharging while delivering a continuous voltage of 3.7 volts versus sodium metal, higher than the 3.37 volts in existing materials, according to researchers.

      • Aqarius@lemmy.world
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        I wonder, though, if having to use Vanadium defeats the point of dropping Lithium for Sodium.

    • MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net
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      7 months ago

      Sodium batteries are thermal batteries, right? So they need turbines to recover the energy into electricity?

      Are you thinking of concentrated solar, maybe?

      • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        I think I was mixing those up with thermal energy storage and thermal batteries.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-salt_battery#Thermal_batteries_(non-rechargeable)

        Sodium batteries do have a high temperature type, but it does look like they are non rechargeable and do generate electricity directly. The thermal energy storage only stores thermal energy rather than electricity, but they use sand.

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