And apparently, also when you think that ‘They’ is a perfectly serviceable gender-neutral singular pronoun, but are willing to use other pronouns if asked to.
EDIT: Other removable offenses on Blahaj now include questioning mod/admin decisions and quoting the modlog as a reason why you’re leaving.
We really need to stop complaining about the pronouns shit, the real problem with dragonfucker isn’t with the preferred pronouns, it’s the fact that dragonfucker is known to harass individuals who call them out on their trolling or sealioning or disagree with them in any way they can’t spin as aggressive or hateful.
I was harassed by an alt of this person because I called them out for their behavior when they decided to make a public attack post on me (now deleted) because I preemptively banned their user account and “spouse” account from communities I moderated for trolling, sealioning, and bad faith arguments.
I clarified that politely and reasonably and also properly contacted pawb.social’s admins (since the mentions in their comment weren’t done properly) and the following response was to create @draconicistransphobc@discuss.online and create !fuckdraconicneo@discuss.online and start spamming it with abusive content attempting to defame, humiliate, intimidate, or even just scare me. That account also sent me porn in my DMs and made rude insults towards me. I was also told to kill myself and also sent death threats, including an invitation for admins to give out my IP address so I could be hunted down and tortured.
I’m almost certain that dragonfucker is the one who did this since it happened immediately after the post which was made on !meta@pawb.social complaining about the bans, and also there were many slip-ups by that account which indicated it was an alt belonging to dragonfucker. Unfortunately beyond that dragonfucker likely did a good job at covering their tracks, or Lemmy just sucks at identifying people, probably both, but I’m confident enough that I’d be willing to bet real money it was dragonfucker, the circumstances are way too suspicious.
Edit:
Here are some of the messages and comment mentions from the alt account mentioned in the post, fair warning, they’re not pleasant. Pornographic imagery has been censored.
CW: Abusive content, threats, suicide encouragement, harassment
A lot of contextual information for these isn’t here, to get it the admins of pawb.social and discuss.online would need to be contacted as the content and user accounts associated have been banned.
Jesus Christ yeah that’s a lot worse than whatever OP is whining about
Yeah it’s way worse, the pronoun thing that people are whining about isn’t even an actual issue. This type of extreme aggression absolutely is. And even though these offenses were committed on an alt and can’t exactly be concretely proven, dragonfucker has committed other offenses on the dragonfucker@lemmy.nz main account, like encouraging trans people to commit murder-suicide and harassment of user and moderator @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world (something I watched happen in front of me). Dragonfucker is a bad person and it’s really upsetting and concerning that most people don’t understand why, instead just complaining about neopronouns.
dragonfucker is known to harass individuals who call them out
The fact that calling them “them” would get your comment deleted is definitely also a problem.
But yeah, this whole mess revolves around one unambiguous asshole. The same crybully keeps coming back with new accounts and new gimmicks to pull the same shit. And it works - because the Blahaj admin takes the most hardline stance possible, and treats all criticism of it as bigotry. So this apparently-unstoppable douchebag just has to whine that someone said “fuck you, troll”, and Ada acts like the rudest part was saying “you.”
As if it’s a slur.
What I think is the worst part is that I’m a queer person, this person has attacked me in various ways as a queer person, and has attacked other queer people. Yet Ada said she just hasn’t seen the evidence, she hasn’t looked at it.
When Ada made that post, and I knew it was about the dragonfucker drama, I never felt more unsafe on a queer friendly instance as a queer person, because I know that if this shit happens again they’ll stand behind dragonfucker, and defend all the lies about how the alt account isn’t actually dragonfucker when I and many other people absolutely know it is.
And the alternative explanation is, hey guess what, your absolute no-questions-asked policy attracts dozens of miserable abusive goblins.
Your mods hate “them” enough to consider moving the one notable community to another instance entirely. This one policy threatens to reduce your instance to an irrelevant niche, because any random asshole can pull ‘did you just assume my gender?!’ trolling, and erase moderators.
I’ve seen pawb around enough to recognize the name. Detached from reality or trolling. IDK. I’m totally guilty of rapping the glass.
Never would I read this.
Sorry, Hate me but if peoples are having and not hurting anyone. I wouldn’t care. Yeah, Dragonfucker have confusing pronoun and I am not even native english speaker. That’s why I avoid talking to Dragonfucker if I accidentally mispronounced then everyone will think I am homophobe?
But “They” is gender nuetral term.
Getting banned on blahaj or hexbear is a good sign that you’re still sane tbh.
I legitimately thought better of Blahaj and Ada than this, and it’s very disappointing to see otherwise.
Blahaj is terrible, as every hardcore lgbtq+ community. They try to advocate for queer acceptance, but their radical behavior and batshit attitude are actually making them the biggest enemies of queer acceptance. They are helping rightoids sooo much.
queer acceptance
By whom?
It’s the sort of queer community that ejects other queers for not being queer enough.
A whole thread talking about @dragonfucker@lemmy.nz brodie must be geekin reading all this😂
A job well done…
Please refer to my comment on this related post: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/34327347/15649022
@Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com why is this post still open when you locked the other one? Seems strange to me, both are equally contentious and have devolved into mostly a slap-fight. PugJesus has stated he wants to leave Blahaj but is still causing drama here over this whole affair, instead of moving on with his life.
This is twords everyone, not specifically pug,
I really don’t understand how this is so hard for people. If calling someone a hippopotamus makes them happy and doesn’t inconvenience me then you bet your ass I’ll be saying hippopotamus. Seems insane to all get so worked up over something that has no negative impact other than making you not mindlessly say ‘they’. Literally just accept it, or block. Downvoting about it every time you see drag isnt gonna fix anything. That’s harassment, and harassment ain’t cool.
Never thought that would be controversial on Lemmy.I just really think people have lost their ability to see that someone else is on the other side of the computer screen. As the bumper sticker that got mega upvoted goes, “trans people existing does literally nothing negative to your life”
You don’t even have to respect drags opinions either! You can just treat drag like any other person who has a lot of bad takes (excluding gender). My upvote ratio is literally 36 up 32 down, but I’ll still do something as simple as writing ‘drag’ instead of ‘they’ to make the person on the other side of my computer screen just a little bit happier.
Happy new years, btw.
Drag is not a pronoun, and it’s not going to catch on, no matter how hard you try.
Also, every interaction I’ve ever seen with Dragon gives me the impression they’re deliberately being annoying.
I really don’t understand how this is so hard for people. If calling someone a hippopotamus makes them happy and doesn’t inconvenience me then you bet your ass I’ll be saying hippopotamus.
And if the admins begin removing people who say human beings can’t be hippopotami?
That, for me, was the reason I left/announced leaving. I don’t give a shit about drag, specifically. Drag could be deleted tomorrow and it wouldn’t make a difference. Drag could have been IP banned immediately after Ada started removing comments and it wouldn’t have made a difference to me.
Once “You can’t be a dragon” is considered a sin on par with transphobia, or, by the arguments of some of the Blahaj commenters here, literally the same thing, I’m fucking out. I’ll generally humor people with inoffensive oddities, but when it comes down to “Agree or shut up” about it, I’m not eager to stick around.
I really don’t understand how this is so hard for people. If calling someone a hippopotamus makes them happy
I can’t speak for everyone about this, but referring to someone as (like in the example that you use) a “hippopotamus” is fine. I personally think of myself as a cat, and though I don’t personally enjoy actually being referred to as such I can understand other people who would and I can accommodate them. My personal wrinkle with this is far more nuanced.
I’m a gender abolitionist. I regard “gender” as a particular aspect of identity that holds cultural significance. I don’t think aspects of identity should be given so much consideration and weight, and I don’t think it’s useful to refer to something as “gender” when it previously hasn’t been, because that makes my goals less achievable. I also don’t think there should be gendered or personalized pronouns, period. I use gendered pronouns because that’s what society expects of me, but these new ones are not only unnecessary the same way gendered pronouns are but also often aestheticly displeasing. For these reasons and others, I get annoyed by neopronouns, especially bespoke ones. Furthermore, I find the idea of pulling more aspects of identity under the nebulous umbrella of “gender” to be regressive.
Hope that helps you understand.
I like your idea. When I think about it, what’s the point of gender?
YDI
And apparently, also when you think that ‘They’ is a perfectly serviceable gender-neutral singular pronoun, but are willing to use other pronouns if asked to.
The first image in the post body, your comment that got removed, says the complete opposite.
It’s not up to you, or anyone else, to label someone’s use of pronouns as trolling. If you think they are, block them, and move on. If you have solid proof that they have I’ll intent, report them, block them, and move on. I don’t know why you’re surprised that a trans safe space is removing comments and banning people for vigilante misgendering.
The first image in the post body, your comment that got removed, says the complete opposite.
“I’m going to leave Blahaj because I don’t acknowledge dragonfucker is a gender” says literally nothing about whether I’d use pronouns, including drag’s.
EDIT: Oh, sorry, the post body? That one I’m quoting up to “as gatekeeping”, I understand that might not be entirely clear at a glance due to modlogs not preserving formatting.
Yeah you caught it, I meant the one in the post body. I’ve read your comment before it was removed (and actually upvoted some others in the thread), so I’m aware of the formatting. But the comment you’re quoting says very explicitly that they will never use neopronouns and will respect gender identities only if they limit themselves to he/she/they. That’s the reason it got removed for gatekeeping, which seems perfectly reasonable to me.
No one is forcing anyone to use specific pronouns. If you don’t like how someone wants to be referred to, either refer to them by name, or block them and move on. blahaj.zone is an explicitly queer instance where a sizable percentage of users are trans, and neopronouns are accepted. It’s unfortunate if trolls abuse that trust, but imo it’s way more harmful if someone started policing acceptable gender identities in a nominal safe space, than if a few trolls slip through. This only got to be such a big drama because some people got very defensive (and rude) about it.
I’ll be sad to see you leave blahaj, I really appreciate all the activity and posts you’re bringing to lemmy as a whole. But if this is the hill you’re willing to die on, I guess blajhai is not for you. I’ll see you on !roughromanmemes@lemmy.world c:
That’s the reason it got removed for gatekeeping, which seems perfectly reasonable to me.
If it was a legitimate removal, for the sake of the argument, is removing someone quoting the modlog as reason why they’re leaving itself also gatekeeping? And the other two comments of mine that were removed for gatekeeping?
No one is forcing anyone to use specific pronouns.
Again, my problem isn’t in pronoun usage being enforced. It’s that additionally, Ada seems to regard any denial that ‘dragonfucker’ is a gender as gatekeeping, and I’m not eager to stick around for that particular path. Principles rarely benefit from being applied without limitation.
“I’m leaving Blahaj but I’m sad” turned to “I’m leaving Blahaj but I’m sad and mildly irritated” when Ada removed my comments for gatekeeping, to “I’m glad I’m leaving Blahaj” when numerous people showed up here to accuse me of transphobia and a dozen other different things explicitly over the case of doubting whether dragonfucker was a gender.
I’ll be sad to see you leave blahaj, I really appreciate all the activity and posts you’re bringing to lemmy as a whole. But if this is the hill you’re willing to die on, I guess blajhai is not for you. I’ll see you on !roughromanmemes@lemmy.world c:
Glory of the Fediverse, right? See you around!
I think it’s disappointing how many people have suddenly jumped to conclusions that you’re somehow a transphobe over all of this. It’s like they were waiting for an opportunity to jump on somebody and attack them. Drag is so obviously a troll that I find it sad that Blahaj is bending over backwards to defend them and damaging their credibility, and that a community supposedly based on kindness and acceptance is being so vitriolic towards you because of this. I’m sure Drag loves the drama this has all caused.
I think it’s disappointing how many people have suddenly jumped to conclusions
Me too. I don’t think Pug’s a transphobe, but I also don’t think Pug understands the scale of the harassment trans people face on a daily basis. Like it’s so bad the users would rather just have potential trolls ignored and downvoted than to see well meaning cis people come in and do vigilante justice.
That empathetic disconnect looks like transphobia to some users. I don’t think the users are right, but I understand how they reached that conclusion, especially with Pug’s days-long soapbox about how despotic Ada is.
I find it sad that Blahaj is bending over backwards to defend them
I see that you, also, are misconceiving what the purpose of Ada’s decision. It’s not about protecting drag, it’s about protecting everyone by not letting people be judge, jury, and executioner in the comments.
It’s not up to you, or anyone else, to label someone’s use of pronouns as trolling.
Is there some special rule in play here? People get accused of “trolling” and banned when there is no trolling a lot. Check modlogs.
Fuck blahaj! All my homies hate blahaj🗣️🔥
Fuck blahaj! All my homies have sex with shark plushies🗣️🔥
play both sides to win
Dragon is a purity test troll:
By using absurd conversational standards backed by the reasoning of “nontraditional identification / self”, they troll both you, and mods into playing the purity “jump how high” game. If the mods flinch, and tell them to tone it down, the community will eat them alive. If they call you out, the mod has to pull the trigger.
I’m not saying the mods are free from blame, but they are so high on their own supply that banning you is the only option.
Non binary folks deserve respect. Non traditional pronouns are worth respect. The way dragon uses them is a problem because they are inconsistent with any logic… They use them semantically wrong
I couldn’t have worded this any better
semantically wrong
This, TBH. It’s just speaking in third person. You’d think if it’s not trolling, at least you’d know what a pronoun is, from a grammatical standpoint.
I don’t think “nontraditional” quite covers it. He, she, they is enough to cover the whole spectrum and anything beyond that is a blatant call for attention that should be discouraged at this point.
There is room to call for more pronouns, but individual and unique monikers are not that. Japan has a range of pronouns that are more useful (or at least more interesting) than what English has, and some languages lack even English’s anemic selection (like, French doesn’t have an official neutral pronoun apparently).
There’s a comment that I read recently that points out how “Anon” (among other words) is technically a pronoun.
I find it interesting, and I thought you might as well.
It’s an interesting point, but in my view, Anon is a pseudonym rather than a pronoun, as it’s used in place of their actual name.
I’d argue that a bespoke pronoun (one that a specific person came up with specifically so they can be referred to by it) is less of a pronoun than “Anon” is, which can apply to anyone.
In fact, I struggle to think of definitions for “pronoun” and “pseudonym” such that “Anon” is a proper pseudonym and a bespoke pronoun is a pronoun.
Edit: I have this person tagged as
Labeled me as “tells people what they’ve labeled people”
People who want to have a discussion about neopronouns are absolutely welcome to, and while I find them aesthetically displeasing and unneeded, it’s no more inherently invalid than any other development of language.
I think that account is a social experiment designed to see how fucking bizarre of a line of bullshit can they force down other people’s throats
Yup. I’d bet money on it.
hmm interesting
Anon is at it again?
AlwaysHasBeen.jpg
Yeah, they’ve kinda lost the point.
Don’t know that it’s power tripping because it’s a matter of whether or not you believe that neopronouns are or are not part of trans rights and trans issues. If you do, then they’re maintaining their space as a place for trans and trans adjacent folks to not have to deal with the bullshit of constantly defending and fighting for every single thing.
So I get it. Once you believe that, and you’re maintaining a space for trans people, you absolutely have to draw that line.
I don’t agree with it, but that’s not the point. It doesn’t matter if I agree or not. It only matters that blahaj is a trans space first and above anything else, and they do buy into neopronouns.
They’ve also bought into protecting a couple of trolls because of that, but that’s the down side.
But, yeah, it’s a fucking mess when you can’t even use a broadly accepted neutral term as the default until you have a specific one. Which, being real, keeping track of random online user names and their choice of pronouns just isn’t worth it. Why the fuck should anyone bother?
Irl? Absolutely. You’ve got faces to connect things to. But online, with people that are essentially acquaintances at best, how the fuck are you going to remember that doggyboy19 is the one that uses xexu, but puppyboy18 uses xenu? My dyslexic ass already has enough trouble keeping track of the user names that don’t have partterns that match established words. Neopronouns amount to a random string of lines and circles to me, there’s no fucking pattern to memorize at all, there’s nothing I can use to keep track of them.
Which is going off the topic of your post here, but it’s one of the reasons “they” is a shit ton better. You don’t have dyslexics, people with English as a second or third language trying to have a nice conversation and being treated like an asshole because they can’t follow the randomly chosen garbles used by some of the more absurd neopronoun folks.
English is my second language, i still kinda understand neopronouns.
Didn’t say they can’t be understood.
Just going to drop this here, it seems relevant.
The effect created by such Internet trolls is not very big, but they manage to make certain forums meaningless because people stop commenting on the articles when these trolls sit there and constantly create an aggressive, hostile atmosphere toward those whom they don’t like. The trolls react to certain news with torrents of mud and abuse. This makes it meaningless for a reasonable person to comment on anything there.
I think there are some people here who have become kung fu masters at the art of straddling the line of acceptable behavior, so that they can remain on the network making everyone’s life unpleasant and bringing nothing of value, while still having a passably plausible claim that they “have a right to be here.” It carries the added bonus of creating division between different factions because some people stick up for them. They’ve often figured out that agglomerating onto tribal hot-buttons like veganism or trans rights is a great way to get knee-jerk support from other members, or at least hesitation to be too quick to ban them, so they can continue to overstay their welcome.
Dragonfucker is definitely a troll that walks the line. He should not be handled with kids gloves, he knows exactly what he’s doing.
I’ve said before that dragonfucker is likely an alt of DroneRights just trying a slightly different tactic, I stand by this assessment due to the extensive behavior patterns exhibited by this individual. Including the fact that after I responded to their post on pawb.social accusing me of abuse since I banned their account preemptively, the community !fuckdraconineo@discuss.online was created and started posting evil and disgusting things about me while pinging me on every fediverse account I had, as well as outing and harassing anyone who dared report the community. I was also greeted with many disgusting DMs featuring porn. I was also sent death threats.
Horrible messages and mentions by drag's harassment alt
Context: Original post was asking admins to give out my IP address so drag could hunt me down and kill me.
Let us be clear, the reason people say Dragonfucker is a troll is not because of the pronoun thing, that’s a not issue and it detracts from the real issue which is the sealioning and abusive behavior they exhibit.
Oh and I’m almost certain this is the same person as dragonfucker because it happened right after the original post, and this account made some fatal slip-ups. No one actually thinks this wasn’t dragonfucker, I’d be willing to bet money that it was. I can’t think of anyone else who would have a motive to do that to me in that moment.
I think a new community called !lemmylore@sh.itjust.works needs to be created to explore all these mysteries. It’s kinda fun
Good idea, maybe you should do it then appoint some moderators.
War of the Dragons right here.
Yup, one side fights with insults and threats, the other with calmness and logic.
Drag is banned on 196
The issue is just how “free” speech should be, also sometimes referred to as the Nazi bar effect. By allowing all types of “freedom”, others feel not free anymore to speak up, for fear of what will ensue.
Edit: and I thought it was obvious but to make extra clear, it’s also called the paradox of intolerance - somehow allowing people unlimited freedom to speak results in less people being willing to do so.
while still having a passably plausible claim that they “have a right to be here.”
… and that you do not, because you called them “they.”
This is Blahaj’s lone overstep and they’re determined to make it a disaster.
This is Blahaj’s lone overstep
