Sweden’s prime minister on Thursday said that he’s summoned the head of the military to discuss how the armed forces can help police deal with an unprecedented crime wave that has shocked the country with almost daily shootings and bombings.

Getting the military involved in crime-fighting would be a highly unusual step for Sweden, underscoring the severity of the gang violence that has claimed a dozen lives across the country this month, including teenagers and innocent bystanders.

Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said that he would meet with the armed forces’ supreme commander and the national police commissioner on Friday to explore “how the armed forces can help police in their work against the criminal gangs.”

  • Stovetop@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    75
    arrow-down
    10
    ·
    9 months ago

    Law enforcement should not be militarized. Sweden just copying America’s mistakes.

    • remotelove@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      37
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      Bear with me for a second. I am going to agree and disagree with you a bit.

      While our law enforcement has more than its share of problems, I can’t really think of any instances where it was militarized. Believe me, I am absolutely not a fan of police overreach or some of the idiot, power hungry cops that are out there.

      There were some cases where different police agencies did receive surplus military equipment, for whatever reason. Weird, sure. Militarized, not quite. One or two armored personnel carriers does not make a military out of a police department.

      We do have the national guard, and they have come in handy a few times. When the US has riots, we tend to have them on a fairly grand scale. It takes some serious manpower to manage them and local police simply don’t have the resources. (1967: 12th Street riots; 82nd and 101st Airborne had to be called in after the National Guard)

      Personally, I have been in ordered to shelter in place a couple of times when I lived in the D.C. area when SWAT had to lock down a block or two. Honestly, given the circumstances, I am quite glad that they had the equipment they had. The US has some really nasty places, for sure.

      Should the a military be deployed because of rampant gang violence? Sure, if the manpower is needed and it’s for a short time. However, it absolutely should bring laser focus on the fact that these gangs weren’t disolved properly to begin with. If the government is being forced to apply controls to the entire population, there is something seriously wrong.

      So, in short, the police shouldn’t be militarized themselves, but sometimes having additional manpower on standby can be a good thing.

      It can go absolutely overboard and I think we can look at the instability in Africa right now to prove that.

      • Bluetreefrog@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        28
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        Bear with me for a second. I am going to agree and disagree with you a bit.

        Have an upvote for excellent Netiquette.

      • state_electrician
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        9 months ago

        In Germany, the military cannot be deployed to use force inside Germany’s borders in peacetime. This is part of the constitution. The military must not be used as a domestic instrument of power. You can guess where this is coming from. As such I always view it quite critically when other countries do this, because there is definitely a danger to it.

      • 3ntranced@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        Police in America: Poopy Diaper Police in other developed countries: Fresh Diaper

        As ACAB as I am, at least the units they seem they will deploy have more than a daycamps worth of training. The problem with militarized forces in these situations is it can aggravate it further if not handled properly.

        I’m looking at you 1985 Phillidalphia MOVE standoff. Even though they weren’t a ‘gang’ but just defying the law together in a non-threatening way; the police took to just bombing the whole city block.

        When you say they should focus on the dissolving of the gangs is exactly correct. Bringing force en masse to combat situational instances won’t stop the problem from growing, you need to strategically remove the kingpins quickly to have the lower echelon fall apart. This also in turn with leaneancy on potential criminal whistleblowers, so those associated already have a ‘scapegoat’ to get out of that environment.

        I could be totally wrong though, this is all based off my perceptions as a Midwest American. I just assume the offenders are members of the same community.

      • jasory@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        All of this applies to the US. US law enforcement hasn’t been militarised since Reconstruction in the 1870s. When people say “militarised police”, they mean armored cars that can stop up to .308 rounds and carrying .223 rifles, both things that civilians can legally purchase. There is no police department in the US that has actual military equipment (outside of Coast Guard and DOD).

    • ribboo@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      Meh, this military stuff is such an exaggeration. It’s mainly about politicians wanting to look like they are strong and doing stuff.

      The military are by law allowed to carry out some tasks the police force can. The main example that has been brought up, is to guard buildings of importance. They also have other skills when it comes to technology, and could help the police with knowledge there. That’s the gist of it.

      Would not call that copy anyone’s mistakes at all to be honest.

      • InvertedParallax@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        No, the military has rules of engagement and accountability, when they shoot the wrong person they go to Leavenworth, not paid vacation.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          There are pretty fair number of Iraqis that would disagree with your claim in regards to factual reality, but yes, and Posse Comitatus is one of those rules.

    • MindSkipperBro12@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      9 months ago

      Why not? Why shouldn’t they bring in all of the necessary equipment to ensure success and to protect themselves?

  • 332@feddit.nu
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    79
    arrow-down
    15
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    And the authoritarians keep moving up their positions.

    The debate over here is fucking crazy, the post-fascist backed government is sneering at any proposed solution with any nuance or suggested preventative measures included. It’s all fucking military intervention, insane deregulation of policing, surveillance, harsher punishments, regressive drug policy, and anti immigration populism.

    Do we have an uptick in violence because of a very specific ongoing gang conflict, yes. But Jesus Christ, not anywhere near the level that would excuse anything close to this.

    • sarjalim@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      I agree that the current government is implementing exactly 0 long-term strategies to help deal with the root cause of the problems, like strengthening and financing social services and welfare, healthcare and mental healthcare, schools and social programs, decriminalizing some drugs etc, to curb influx of underage criminals into the gangs and remove some of the economical incentives. The opposition is coming out with good suggestion after good suggestion, and the right-wing (by Swedish standards) government has basically just slashed welfare across the board in practice. They are going for only the hard-on-crime approach, which as far as I know has no real scientific proof of long-term efficacy unless paired with social/community interventions.

      However, I think many swedes agree that the police need more resources - particularly people watching possible targets of future bombings and just more eyes on the gangs. We have one of the lowest number of police per capita in Europe, slightly higher than the rest of the Nordic countries tbf, but with much bigger problems with organized crime and violence.

      I’m also horrified at this general societal development, but I can see the merit of involving some of the military in more eyes-on-the-ground kinds of operations for a few years until we have more of a grip on the gang situation. I prefer that to visitation zones, harsher punishments and more generalized surveillance of non-suspects being allowed.

      But maybe I’m just naïve to the implications.

      • 332@feddit.nu
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        9 months ago

        Yeah, I don’t really disagree fundamentally with any of this apart from the fact that I don’t think involving the military at this point is anywhere near warranted. We’ll have to see what happens I guess, I think it could be mostly saber rattling. “Look how seriously we’re taking this!”.

        But more police, and specifically more police on tasks that actually matter and aren’t just being pursued to pad their stats? That’s fine.

        • sarjalim@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          9 months ago

          Yes, agreed, some of it is probably just bluster to seem like they’re doing something.

          However, even if we agree that more police resources are necessary, I don’t know how we should get more of competent, educated police in the short term unless we involve military (who do have some education at least). The last thing I want is for us to rapidly employ new “police” (ordningsvakter) with only weeks or a few months of training - that’s how we get additional problems with US-style police violence on top of the gang violence problems…

    • Squizzy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      9 months ago

      In Ireland we have the special criminal court, it allows for the views of officials to be taken as evidence. Absolutely ripe for corruption but so far it hasn’t been used for that. It is a closed door court with only the accused and the verdict being open to the public.

      • kungen@feddit.nu
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        This problem has been created by hyper-racist, hyper-femenist, virtue signaling lefties who honestly believed that importing half a million illiterate, ignorant, idiots. Without language or job training. Was a good idea

        TIL Fredrik “Öppna Era Hjärtan” Reinfeldt is a virtual signaling leftist?

        It’s the typical Moderaterna playbook: increase load on the public services, and do a lot more privatisering to make it more “effective” (and line their pockets), as well as wage dumping for those few who were able to work well. As stuff started to get worse, they lose mandate. But new mandate can’t clean up their problems very easily (and are too incompetent to do so), and so stuff keeps getting worse. People get tired, and they have awful memory, so they give power back to those who started the problem – and suddenly they’re interested in their “solutions” that lead to these problems in the first place and give up any freedoms left.

        But keep pretending S started the problem. Their only fault was being too incompetent to fix integration and such from day 1.

        • mumblerfish@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          9 months ago

          Just how Dagens Industri is a “communist rag” (according to Johan Pehrsson) and Expo, that have had Moderates on the board, a left-extremist activist group, now also Reinfeldt also a lefty. Damn these rightwingers sure are far right these days.

        • SwagaliciousSR@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          That is my point though, “Their only fault was being too incompetent to fix integration and such from day 1”

          Yeah, it was the Modraterna, who I absolutley consider to be “lefties” Who started this entire mess way back when, and “öppna era hjärtan” was a marvelous political power play where the American style “corporate socialist democracy” idk, crushed the more traditional communist leaning Scandinavian Socialism*; admit to being kinda racist and very culturally xenophobic, or import almost a million people with zero cultural ties to you.

          And they are absolutley virtue signaling pansies imo. Just because I consider a moderate party in Sweden lefties and you do not, does not mean I belive S started the problem, S and VP or whatever the f they are called now had my respect before they absolutley bought the most obvious political move The average svennebannan has lost faith in the system, the gang related välfärdsfusk is going to overehelm, not literally, but emotionally and sensationally overwhelm hen. And I really do believe that.

          The current SD is nothing to what it used to be, the combined efforts of both the parties I described earlier* declawed and removed any actually effective tools the party could have brought to the table other than “it was better in the 70-90s, and we don’t like all these brown/black people”

          Everyone hates to hear it but actual social nationalistic/democratic parties are going to become the mainstream more and more as the counter to the giant blob of grey that is the current swedish political landscape. The mass import of low cost different colored labor killed solidarity and everything else will soon follow.

          • kungen@feddit.nu
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            9 months ago

            it was the Modraterna, who I absolutley consider to be “lefties”

            Lefties, righties, what? Why do you only see directions instead of destinations?

            Moderaterna didn’t open the floodgates because they care about these people, but because their goal has always been to vaska välfärden. Even the current PM said it himself 30 years ago when he first got elected to Riksdagen, that his goal is to “bekämpa och avveckla välfärdsstaten”. Do you think any “lefty” would ever say something like that, or do you simply like to abuse the English language?

            If I buy sanctioned oil from Venezuela for really cheap and rebrand it for sale in the US, does it mean that I personally agree with any of Maduro’s politics? Answer is “I don’t know, I don’t care, I just wanna get rich”: the impact of my actions on anyone else is irrelevant to me. This has always been Moderaternas playbook, and the memory loss/lack of historical education saddens me.

            And people will still eat it up: hårdahandskar, throw more people into expensive prisons, make it harder to get a job (if Kriminalvården did their job, anyways), more surveillance, less freedoms. Because it’d simply be too hard to eliminate the gang’s main income source via selling some plants at Systembolaget.

            • SwagaliciousSR@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              9 months ago

              wtf does maduro and venezuela have to do with swedish gang crime and the increased militarization of swedish police?

              Other than that though, thats just my own point rebranded.

              Modraterna played everyone, on behalf of the US&CIA, I believe it started with olof palme, literally that is what I believe. And you had to jump on the train to destabilize the swedish economy, by importing almost a million low to no skill workers, or you were branded a raging racist. A Professional, Picture Perfect generational psy-ops culture and economic campaign to end swedish solidarity.

              And now that Sweden will be turned into a generic US/EU-lite hybrid, join NATO, and normalize entire populations on temp/gig work as a source of survival. All the wannabe commies and socialists who comprise the swedish goverment are going to stand by and let it happen. As it’s already done deal, they stood by as the interest of the swede was sold out for the interest of the west. Then people act all surprised when some of us gasp* support more confrontational policing methods? As the majority of the west is facing a surge in organized crime? Especially Sweden?

              Either way my og point stands. Solidariteten är över, they killed it by importing that much cheap labor. And Modraterna are absolutley “lefties” as they preach free markets(but only when it benefits them), open borders, etc. Which makes them liberal free market lefty globalists? And they like won too yall realize right? That’s my point.

              I’m assuming yall offended are “vänster” leaning. Which on a good day I think means yall are wannabe socialists or commies. Yall lost the fight along time ago I’m afraid.

              Also, I literally grow and smoke exclusively my own shit. Why are you assuming I’m anti weed cause I’m pro-swedish-cops? lol every haschnisse i know has been arrested 3-5 times for possession, and their lives aren’t exactly ruined. And what part of militarized police operating in specific situations and areas of Sweden will result in it being harder for people to get jobs? The equipment and training I’m talking about is the kind of shit that either, makes it easier for cops to go after middle-higher ranked individuals in organized crime structures, or keep cops from being shot. Not exactly a bad idea.

              Not pulling up on Muhammed at 2am and just blasting. lol

      • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        9 months ago

        As someone from the Northeast US that has lived here for the better part of 4 decades, people that live in gated communities are usually either retirees or twats scared of their own shadows.

        • SwagaliciousSR@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          9 months ago

          Thank you for your input! It has been very useful, honestly you’re not wrong, there is alot of older folk in the neighborhood. That and families with kids.

          • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            How do you resolve the contradiction of being anti-immigration while being an immigrant yourself?

              • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                8
                ·
                9 months ago

                You stated that you live in the United States and are originally from Sweden. Unless you made part of that up, that makes you an immigrant.

                • AreaSIX @lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  11
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Twats like him call themselves expats and imagine that they can’t be immigrants because they’re white.

      • Squizzy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        9 months ago

        I was going to stop at americanized policing but I pushed for one more sentence.

        America has the worst gang violence in the “western” world. Their methods are proven not to work.

        You are wrong

        • SwagaliciousSR@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          9 months ago

          America has the worst gang violence by western standards because of failed social policies. Not its policing, which is not helping for sure admittedly.

          Sweden has the some of the worst gang violence in Northern Europe now, yet has excellent social policies. Which aren’t exactly shrinking? So why is the gang violence getting worse?

          Because there is money to be made. And officer banan is not equipped to deal with someone from either a multi national crime family, or a middle eastern militia using sweden as a training ground.

          Sometimes cops need a Damm pansarvagn and if you disagree that’s OK, I wish they didn’t either.

          • Squizzy@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            9 months ago

            America’s has a lot of reasons contributing to their gang violence. We shouldn’t need a stronger police force to deal with gang violence, americanized policing doesn’t work. Compare recedivism rates, compare population incarcerated, compare length and conditions of incarcerations.

            The money argument is separate and not at all what you are arguing for, if it was you’d be here talking about legalisation not extreme prejudicial policing.

            We need early prevention measures, strong social safety nets creating a path to becoming a part of the community. And we need to remove money as an incentive.

            • SwagaliciousSR@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              9 months ago

              What part of my post made you think we need “extreme prejudicial policing” lol wtf.

              That definition would be cops murdering peeps in the street because he might be a drug dealer. Aka the phillipines death squads. Is the only example that comes to mind other than tribal execution militias.

              Im am saying, swedish police need more “militirized” equipment. Mostly armored apcs, cause if you’ve ever been shot at, cops wanting one goes from being “oh my god cops dont need tanks” to “it only stops small arms fire?”

              And more importantly they absolutley also need “military grade” (lol) surveillance equipment and training. The current gangs who are trying to solidify their control over the growing swedish drug and scam market, often have had their leadership professionally trained by various nation-states official military/defense apparatus.

              It’s a real problem, that’s growing at an exponential rate.

              And ofc we need early prevention measures!? I specifically mentioned in my first post that the US has both bad policy and heavy handed policing. Sweden according to you has good policy and better policing?

              Then why is the problem getting worse at an exponential rate?

              • Squizzy@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Oh man you called for American policing and hen said it is heavy handed, you don’t know what you want you just know the viewpoint you want to hold and to convince others to have without having the knowledge to get people to share that view point.

                I have no interest in having a discussion with someone calling for militarised policing ie American style law enforcement.

                • SwagaliciousSR@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Yeah, I want heavy handed policing regarding organized crime in Sweden.

                  Wtf about that is hard to understand?

                  Then why say all that lol?

  • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    62
    arrow-down
    30
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    These fascist fucks love to pretend that gang violence and poverty just appear out of nowhere, and their immediate recourse is always escalation of very same state violence that generated the unrest.

    • Murvel@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      26
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      It was the Social Democrats (Swedens’ biggest socialist party) who suggested the use of the military.

      But of course, you have no goddamn clue as to what the hell you’re talking about and your ignorance shows.

      And anyone up voting these sentiments: the issue is more complex, and please read up on the issue and build a complete picture.

      • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        “Socialists” can be fascists too, if they’re using government violence to quell dissent caused by government failure.

          • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            9 months ago

            “Socialists” can be fascists too, if they’re using government violence to quell dissent caused by government failure.

            • Murvel@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              edit-2
              9 months ago

              Are you suggesting that Socialdemokraterna is a fascists organization!?

              Lmao, get out if here just stfu.

              • TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                6
                ·
                9 months ago

                Are they using violence to quell dissent generated from their failure to adequately represent their population? Your answer is the same as mine, if you’re honest.

                • Murvel@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  No. So what in the goddamn hell are you talking about?

      • isthingoneventhis@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        I mean the “venstre” party in Denmark are also teetering close to far right idealisms as well? The vitriol in your comment seems wildly misplaced for something that could have been otherwise politely explained.

    • ale@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      9 months ago

      What is causing this rise in Sweden? I’m not really up to speed on Swedish news or politics.

      • mumblerfish@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        42
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        9 months ago

        The most recent increase is from one of the largest gangs splintering. Different groupings and gangs are attacking each other and each others families, trying to gain power. Is what the news seems to say.

        On the larger scale, if you look to scientists, criminologists, and not politicians, there are a lot of contributing factors. Hardest anti-drugs laws in Europe, more or less, failing school systems, failing integration, gentrification. All contribute to create a high risk high reward enviornment that seem worth it to a lot of people compared to a more ordinary life.

        • ale@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          I think your comment has been the most helpful so far. I had no clue that Sweden had strict drug laws. Thanks for the reply!

          I wonder why the headlines seem to focus on Sweden right now when the other countries of western Europe seem to have similar issues right now.

        • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          9 months ago

          Highest anti-drug laws? In Sweden??

          The entire shtick of this story is that Sweden is one of the most lenient when it comes to policing, and one of the most generous when it comes to social safety net, and it still won’t stop crime from escalating year over year

        • Bogus5553@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          9 months ago

          Well it’s not just that they are shooting at each other. They often force kids below the age of 15 to do the killing and they aren’t any sniper elite so to say. What I’m trying to say is that people outside of the gang world also die since the executioner some times shoots up the wrong door, or throws a grenade too close to another house so that their neighbor dies.

      • JasSmith@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        31
        arrow-down
        11
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        Sweden has accepted a LOT of refugees over the last eight years. Now 20% of the entire country is foreign born. Much higher when you include second and third generation migrants.

        Unfortunately, migrants in Sweden are far over-represented in crime. Especially violent crime: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338563093_Migrants_…

        All of the bombings, for example, are gang related, and gang members in Sweden have a disproportionately foreign background.

        Almost all gang members in Sweden are either 1st- or 2nd-generation migrants: https://www.gulf-insider.com/almost-all-gang-members-in-sweden-are-either-1st-or-2nd-generation-migrants/amp/

        What’s clear from the data is that not all refugees commit crime at the same rate. Refugees from Vietnam, for example, committed very low crime. Ditto for Ukrainian refugees. Syrian and Somali refugees, on the other hand, have sky high crime. Sweden has accepted a lot of refugees from these regions, among others.

        • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          9 months ago

          Over-representation in crime has a lot of reasons. Yes, one of them is the cultural dimension, but every single time these statistics are normalized for socioeconomic status, it drops immediately to levels extremely close to those of Swedes born to Swedish parents. Time and time again these statistics come to the same old boring conclusion we all know: poverty, lack of integration, having no way to enter the job market, discrimination. These are the reasons we see the results we see today.

          “Immigrants” is not the reason for crime. This is flawed logic. What is the reason immigrants are overrepresented in statiscis? That’s the real question. You comment ignores what immigrants have brought to Sweden which has been extremely positive.

          Immigrants in Sweden have higher education and yet only end up in low-paying jobs. . Despite these difficulties, they have in finding jobs that fit their qualification level, and as of 2020, “34 per cent of all practising medical doctors and 12 per cent of all nurses in Sweden are immigrants. Sweden’s most common profession is personal care worker or assistant nurse (undersköterska). Of all 183,000 assistant nurses, 48,329 or 26 per cent were born abroad. The most common region of origin of assistant nurses was Asia, which includes the Middle East.” (source). I work in tech and we constantly have a “shortage of talent”, and a large portion of programmers I know are non-Swedish. We could go on about this for days.

          Basically, if “immigrants” in Sweden (however you may like to define it and however many people you can lump into that term) were to not go to work tomorrow, Sweden would stand still and the clinics won’t function.

          • JasSmith@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            9 months ago

            Over-representation in crime has a lot of reasons. Yes, one of them is the cultural dimension, but every single time these statistics are normalized for socioeconomic status, it drops immediately to levels extremely close to those of Swedes born to Swedish parents.

            Sweden studied this: https://bra.se/publikationer/arkiv/publikationer/2023-03-01-socioekonomisk-bakgrund-och-brott.html

            Most people who come from a socio-economically less favourable background do not commit more crime than people who come from a more favourable background, and it also happens that people from a more favourable background do commit crime. This means that even if there is a connection between socio-economic background and involvement in crime, that connection is weak. It is not possible to appreciably predict who will commit crimes based on knowledge of people’s socio-economic background.

            Instead, other risk factors have a stronger relationship with criminal behaviour. When compared with factors that research has identified as risk factors for crime, such as parenting competence, the presence of conflicts in the family, school problems or association with criminal peers, the research shows that these have a stronger connection with criminal behaviour than socio-economic background factors. The same applies to risk factors linked to the individual himself, for example permissive attitudes or impulsivity.

            In other words, the cultural component is far more important than the socio-economic component. Over the decades, Europe has accepted migrants of many different cultures, and despite also being poor, many of these communities commit far less crime.

            “Immigrants” is not the reason for crime. This is flawed logic. What is the reason immigrants are overrepresented in statiscis? That’s the real question. You comment ignores what immigrants have brought to Sweden which has been extremely positive.

            No one is blaming all immigrants for crime. As per the data, some specific immigrants are responsible for the majority of crime, per capita.

            Basically, if “immigrants” in Sweden (however you may like to define it and however many people you can lump into that term) were to not go to work tomorrow, Sweden would stand still and the clinics won’t function.

            Some immigrants are doctors, and as above, no one is complaining about them. The immigrants people are complaining about are the ones committing horrific crimes. [alternative Swedish source] This is one story of thousands and thousands and thousands. That nine year old girl was left brain damaged after suffering brutal rape by a man who had recently been granted asylum.

            • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              9 months ago

              This is the conclusion from the study you linked.

              One thing I’ve seen often is that people who claim “certain types of immigrants” are problematic don’t read studies properly or cherry pick what they like.

              no one is complaining about them

              No, they just complain about people who look like them, have the same skin color as them, and sometimes them (by mistake, I suppose?). “No one” is a huge generalizing in this time when even the highly-skilled “right” type of immigrants are now having problems thanks to this SD rhetoric, and some are even considering leaving the country.

              Unfortunately a lot of those committing those crimes now are teenagers who have lost touch with society and they are most likely Swedish citizens by now. So how do we go from here?

              • JasSmith@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                7
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                9 months ago

                One thing I’ve seen often is that people who claim “certain types of immigrants” are problematic don’t read studies properly or cherry pick what they like.

                I encourage you to read that paragraph again if you think it says anything other when what I have already claimed. Please pay particular attention this part: “The correlation between socioeconomic background and crime is weak”.

                No, they just complain about people who look like them, have the same skin color as them, and sometimes them (by mistake, I suppose?). “No one” is a huge generalizing in this time when even the highly-skilled “right” type of immigrants are now having problems thanks to this SD rhetoric, and some are even considering leaving the country.

                Well you’ll have to take it up with those alleged people. Myself and those in this post are not making that argument.

                Unfortunately a lot of those committing those crimes now are teenagers who have lost touch with society and they are most likely Swedish citizens by now. So how do we go from here?

                The solutions are complex, and Sweden is beginning to look to Denmark. The first step is to prevent the problem getting worse. This means halting all migration from regions where immigrants demonstrate a higher per capita rate of crime. Clearly their cultural values are incompatible with Sweden. Secondly, ghettos are causing major issues in Sweden. Denmark prevents the formation of ghettos by limiting the proportion of refugees by region in any single area. Refugees are encouraged to integrate by being placed into Danish neighbourhoods. This encourages refugees to learn the language and adopt Danish values. This is crucial for integration. Finally, more demands must be placed on refugees. In Denmark, refugees must complete gates, including learning Danish, and finding a job. There are consequences for failure to comply. Sweden has no such obligations on refugees. Or at least, they did not until recently.

                Despite Sweden investing more into integration than arguably any other country on Earth, their outcomes are poor. So the issue isn’t about resources. It’s about compliance. Their method isn’t working and it’s time they start imposing obligations on refugees.

                • المنطقة عكف عفريت@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  10
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  You and I read the same conclusion. You took out the single part that supports your claim and ignored the rest. The whole study is about how socioeconomic status related to crime and that the factors and explanatory models are varied with no consensus among researchers. The idea of the correlation being weak is that you cannot predict criminality risk with only socioeconomic. Instead, the chain of cause and effect is much more inderect and nuanced. Look at this paragraph:

                  However, a shared feature of all these explanatory models is that socioeconomic back