• Spasmolytic@lemm.ee
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    10 months ago

    Fucking hell. My wife and I wanted to plan our next hiking trip and go to Banff, then started reading about the grizzly threat. It seemed real, and there are so many beautiful places to go, so we dropped it.

    Then, about a week ago, a guy in the gym at work is telling me about his trip to Banff where they took their kids along too. I started thinking maybe we should go for it. Now I read this awful news. Suddenly it once more seems like a bad idea.

  • Bob@feddit.nl
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    10 months ago

    Interesting editorial choice to stick a photo of a sick sunrise in the middle of an article about a bear mauling.

  • Kalkaline @leminal.space
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    10 months ago

    “only 14% of grizzly bear attacks are fatal” seems like this just downplays the danger. If a product on the shelves had “only 14%” chance of causing cancer people would be livid.

    • Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Considering bears are 8ft long 900lbs killing machines an 86% survival rate is actually pretty fucking good.

      Also if you’re dumb enough to downplay the danger involving grizzly bears for any reason you’re not going to live long anyway

      • meco03211@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Pretty sure that is another way of saying 86% of people can successfully play dead.

        Remember folks: If it’s black, fight back. If it’s brown, lie down. If it’s white, goodnight.

        • Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          Except some black bears are brown, so fight back if it’s a brown black bear and lie lie down if it’s a brown not-black bear (grizzly)

      • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Well dying from a bee sting if you’re allergic is pretty common if you don’t have an epi pen. So yes, common.

        There is a massive difference and approach to bears it on a special park Vs wild.

        Over in your city folk safari zoo, in which you think you’re ‘in the wild’, you are not.

        In the wild, Grizzlies will rip you. https://youtu.be/K-Tfq6dARGk?si=EQLh0ahqdzOVkRWJ

        They are very fuckin dangerous. And very fuckin fast. They eat other grizzly bears without mercy too. Especially if there’s not enough salmon around.

        In Canada kills by bears in the green belt is a known risk and they have procedures to try to lessen interference with the wild life for this reason. That’s the only reason why the deaths are down. It’s not like rural people are flaunting themselves at wildlife and have them as pets. The deaths start going up when city folk start wandering into the wild thinking every bear is a big ol puppy dog.

        • agent_flounder@lemmy.one
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          10 months ago

          If you have any statistics to provide I would love to see them.

          Meanwhile, yes Grizzlies can be extremely dangerous on the rare occasion they attack. How dangerous they are doesn’t change the odds of being attacked. It just means you’re more likely fucked if one does attack you. It’s ok to be scared shitless of them. I am. But don’t let the fear taint your reasoning.

          Here are some more statistics. Hopefully folks can set aside their fear for a moment and analyze the risk with a level head. Keep in mind the number of visitors to wild areas is quite large.

          • There were 183 bear attacks in North America between 2000–2015.
          • There are 40 bear attacks around the world every year.
          • The odds of being attacked by a bear are one in 2.1 million.
          • On average, 24 deaths were caused by grizzly bears between 2000–2015.
          • There were six fatal bear attacks in Alaska from 2008–2018.
          • There were 22 human-bear incidents in the US Yosemite National Park in 2019.

          https://petpedia.co/bear-attack-statistics/

          Oh and by the way if you think national parks are just zoos, please by all means go tell that up close to the free roaming wild moose and bears in Yellowstone or Elk in Rocky Mountain National Park, especially during the rut, and see how that works out for ya.

          Being in the backcountry where you don’t have as much wildlife management might be riskier. Although I would love to see statistics because many factors could play in. Bears being habituated to human presence and especially food is a major issue that increases bear encounters. So it’s possible that backcountry encounters are rarer than in heavily visited parks.

          • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Statistics? You’re not my job. I don’t work for you. I don’t do homework. And I owe you nothing. And I especially don’t owe you free work you entitled asshat.

            And I won’t shut up from at least warning people so deal with it. And you’re so bent on hugging a grizzly, go for it mate, I can’t stop you. You’re not my job. you are absolutely full of shit.

    • guyrocket@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      What an odd correlation: bear attacks and products on shelves.

      Are you implying that people might want to purchase bear attacks? Like a carnival ride?

      And there are a good number of products that do have a good chance of causing cancer…so…what was your point?

      • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        You seem to not understand that there are idiots that see a bear and think it’s perfectly ok to go up and pet it like a dog.

      • Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca
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        10 months ago

        There’s actually an interesting statistic where bear attacks from black bears are more likely to happen from the males, whereas attacks from grizzlies are more likely to happen from the females.

        Black bear cubs have a strategy to run up the nearest tree when threatened and the mama bear guards the base of the tree rather than going on the offensive, so you are able to back away and avoid an attack a lot easier than a female grizzly, since grizzly cubs don’t instinctually climb trees when threatened but inside rely on the mother to defend them by going on the offensive.

    • pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      “Sharks don’t actually try to kill humans, they just get curious and take exploratory bites”

      Obviously that’s not a direct quote, but I people say things like it in defense of sharks frequently.

      • AbidanYre@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        If my spine is cracked I’m probably not making it out of the back country to get the medical care I need in order to not die.

        • meco03211@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I’d think in general, “just a broken back” would not be an immediate death sentence (even if it’s results in you being paralyzed and unable to effectively save yourself). However I also don’t see it being likely that’s all you’d suffer from a grizzly attack. If they’ve broken your back, you probably have one or two other injuries.

    • guyrocket@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      The bears can share the outdoors with people. This story is light on details but bear spray is considered the best defense against bear.

      I’ve camped many times in bear country and slept in a tent. I kept bear spray with me at all times and fortunately had no problems…knock on wood. Most of the time it is OK but you have to be intelligent about it. Don’t leave food out, carry bear spray, stay away from bear as much as possible, etc.

      Also, there are plenty of great outdoor places you can go that don’t have bear. Not saying they’re risk free, almost nowhere is risk free. But there are “safer” parks, etc. (not “safe”, just “safer”).

      I would never want to be only stuck inside. There’s too much amazing to see outside.

      • meco03211@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Bear balls! That’s what my wife and I use (along with bear spray and a 10mm). Little jingly balls you hook into your backpack. Now just walking makes a continuous noise.

          • meco03211@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Most wild animals don’t want random interactions with strange noises. They will avoid as much as possible. Grizzlies and black bears don’t usually “hunt”. I’m unsure how effective it would be with polar bears or if it would draw them in. But your prep for going to an area with polar bears should be not going to the area with polar bears.

        • amiuhle@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          What’s the difference between black and brown bear poop?

          spoiler

          One has fruit stones in it, the other one contains bear bells.

          Edit: it makes sense to make oneself heard, the worst thing that can happen is quietly walking around a corner and there’s a bear with two cubs close by.

          Bear bells are a bit annoying and clapping or just talking to each other also works. Humans are not considered bait for bears and they will usually try to avoid you.

          There are good books about avoiding bear attacks when in the backcountry.

      • Very_Bad_Janet@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        Do you spray it directly at the bear? Or is it a kind of repellent that you spray on yourself/your tent? ETA: Thanks for your answers!

        • ikidd@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Never. Ever. Spray bear spray around your camp. There’s been plenty of incidents where that’s what drew them in and got people hurt/killed. It’s like cooking around your tent, they have to investigate the smells.

          • guyrocket@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            Really? Got a link for info about that?

            I wouldn’t think you’d want to spray pepper spray anytime you’re not using it for defense. It usually blows around and there’s a good chance you’ll get some on yourself.

            I would only spray it if I had to.

              • guyrocket@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                Thanks for the link.

                I would never have thought to ever do that. So if you ever do use it, you then need to leave the area. Which you probably want to do anyway because pepper spray is pretty unpleasant.

                • ikidd@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  Never occurred to me either. I’ve packed in bear country plenty over the years, never used spray even though I’ve had 2 grizzly encounters and countless black bear run-ins. Just lucky, I guess.

        • meco03211@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          It’s mace for bears. Usually much stronger than regular “mace”. Also the canister is designed to spray a longer distance (like 20 to 40 ft). Google some videos to see it in action.

        • amiuhle@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          It’s really strong pepper spray, you spray it between you and the bear, towards the ground approx 10m from you I think. They do come with instructions though, please read them before use.

  • protovack@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    a shotgun is probably the only thing that would’ve saved them. or, just choosing not to hike in bear country at this time of year. This is when the more desperate bears will eat anything that moves. They aren’t picky, and playing dead will not save you if a bear is extremely hungry, as they are in drought conditions. just a tragic reminder that bears can and will kill, and eat you under certain circumstances.

        • SHOW_ME_YOUR_ASSHOLE@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          Bear spray is the first line of defense assuming the wind is at my back or non-existent. The backup plan is 12 rounds of 10mm Buffalo Bore or Underwood handgun ammunition.

          The only close encounter I’ve had with a grizzly (and a moose too) was in Canada where I was not allowed to have my handgun. I made a point to not wander more than maybe 25 feet from my vehicle so I could make a quick getaway if needed. The grizzly came within 100 feet of me on a river bank on the opposite side of the Kluane river in Yukon Territory and the moose wandered up river then floated downriver.

        • guyrocket@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          Yes, not a crazy idea. But if you see that Wikipedia article you need bigger caliber weapons to be effective.

      • sudo22@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        What? That link immediately refutes this claim in the next sentence “Although this claim has been disputed because of the 83 incidents in the Smith study[10] only 18 cases involved an aggressive bear, and of those 18 only 9 involved a charging bear.”

    • sudo22@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Agree but you need to be very mindful for the type of gun.

      Any more typical pistol like 9mm, 380, 45ACP won’t do much against a bear. 10mm high penetration rounds (ie not holopoints, hard cast is preferable) is probably the minimum I’d want if I can’t carry a rifle in bear country.

    • bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 months ago

      A lot of common calibers really don’t do much against a damn grizzly, those bastards have every possible cheat code active.

    • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      Good ol idiot gun nuts piping in to let us know that every problem can be solved with more guns.

      • sudo22@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        What are you on. Life and death situations are textbook uses for guns no matter how antigun rights you are.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Or, how about avoiding those life and death situations? I’ll “stand my ground” that most bear attacks are caused by people. Don’t do that. Don’t be stupid and rely on blasting away to save your life. Bear bells, secure food storage away from people, not getting too close with your photo attempt, are much more effective

          • sudo22@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Yes I agree do all of this, don’t just shoot everything you see. But on the chance this fails or you make a mistake, you should have a gun as a last resort.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          If every back country hiker was strapped up we would have more deaths, not less.

          • sudo22@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Okay bud. If you don’t want to carry by all means no one is forcing you. But I’m going to protect my family when we camp or need to visit bear country for any reason.

                • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                  10 months ago

                  Carrying them openly at camp sites and in national or provincial parks is not.

                  More people carrying guns will result in more suicide, more domestic violence murders, and more accidental homicides than it will prevent human deaths from fucking bears.

                  Grow up.

            • penguin@sh.itjust.works
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              10 months ago

              Or just don’t voluntarily go somewhere that could result in a “life or death” situation?

              • sudo22@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                If that’s how you want to do it. Nature is dangerous sometimes. Shouldn’t let that prevent you from seeing its beauty.

      • CalamityBalls@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        From someone firmly against the proliferation of firearms, I think taking a gun on a camping trip where there might be bears is a pretty solid idea.

      • SHOW_ME_YOUR_ASSHOLE@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Gun owners have to pipe in whenever there’s a legitimate reason for a firearm otherwise the narrative is that we only have them because we love mass shootings and dead children.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          We know you love them cause they make you feel like a big man, their widespread ownership just also always leads to mass shooting and the mass death of children.

          We understand where you’re coming from, we just think your prioritization is objectively and statistically stupid.