On the side bar it lists the following:
- [Matrix/Element]Dead
- Discord
“Discord” is an active link, but the Matrix link is completely inactive. Not only is it inactive (which could have be excused as a broken link), but it is also manually labeled as “Dead”, as if there is no intention of making it work. How can a community that is focused on privacy willingly favor a service that is privacy non-respecting when a perfectly functional privacy-respecting alternative exists?
It’s the timeless debate between accessibility and exclusivity. Do you want more people in your community by compromising some values? Or would you rather be a hardliner but never reach those people?
Most of the time you have to pick somewhere on that spectrum. It’s a question of pragmatism and utilitarianism.
Does it do more good for lots of people to be slightly more privacy-aware, or is it better to have a very small portion of the population that are super privacy-aware?
You have to decide, and the debate rages on all the time.
I want a nicely bridget matrix - discord channel, so that the individuals of the community can choose themselves
Are you able to at least bridge you matrix to the discord? You should be able to, at the very least, be able to do that while also promoting matrix.
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Ehh not really; at least if you care about your own anonymity. Sure the communication is as private as the weakest link (or less because now you have to trust the bot relaying it, too), but nobody from Discord would be able to easily look up your identity.
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Oh shit. I did not realize that.
Yes there are bridge bots. But discord breaks them, and bands their accounts. Sometimes
Thanks!
In addition to adoption, it takes time for the usability to catch up.
Right now Signal is just as good (IMO better) as Messenger usability wise, but that wasn’t always there.
Matrix needs some time to iron out those issues
I agree to an extent, but usability is not a sufficient condition for mass adoption. I think Lemmy for end users is just as usable as Reddit was, at least for me it is. But people don’t want to leave their communities.
That’s why personally I have a Discord still. There are too many communities I am an active part of on there to abandon Discord outright. Plus all of my friends and family are on there, and I’ve already approached some them about switching and they all have said the same thing I just did.
I wasn’t ever super invested in Reddit, so it was easy for me to abandon it for Lemmy, and I vastly prefer the communities here. Discord though is a different story for now, unfortunately.
Accessibility would be to let people have the choice: making a bridge between Discord, Matrix, Telegram, XMPP, IRC, etc… There are plenty of tools to do that today, it’s not complicated.
How is this more accessible? Have you read the installation instructions? How would someone that has no IT background even manage to configure this? Even just grabbing a binary from the releases page is complicated for a lot of people.
If you compromise on the very topic you’re promoting, you don’t care enough.
Isn’t Lemmy itself a big compromise?
Wait, really? So you think Matrix is the ultimate form of secure and private “chat” communities? Because if it is not then it is a compromise.
This Lemmy instance for sure as hell is not the most private and secure.
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The issue becomes moderation at that point, not a big problem for a larger community, but small communities tend to struggle with moderation with just one hub of communications.
Also, the hardliners wouldn’t be interested in co-existing, that’s against their ethics generally.
Because privacy communities are a joke.
Yeah it quickly becomes a dick measuring contest and shunning people for using different things. It becomes very black/white views, and have some crazy out of touch takes, like expecting your grandma to self host lol. They also confuse anonymity with privacy, like how not being able to sign up for something with tor and monero is a privacy violation, it’s not.
Pfft. My gramgram self-hosts on her own LFS build with a hardened kernel and custom written SELinux policies. All your grandparents need to get on her level.
Disclaimer: Everything here is a lie.
like how not being able to sign up for something with tor and monero is a privacy violation, it’s not.
Note that “secrecy” and “privacy” are often understood in Security lingo as different things. One protects confidentiality, the other one protects anonymity.
It’s possible to have one and not the other…
You can have a very private system through onion routing but have the contents of the messages exchanged be in plaintext, open to the public. Nobody will be able to know the one who wrote the message was you. But they can see the message. (then there is privacy, but not secrecy).
Or you can have encrypted communications (say HTTPS) but not DNS over TLS/HTTPS, and/or no ECH, so people in the middle (eg. your ISP) can know exactly that the packages are sent by you and where you sent them, even if their content is encrypted (so you have secrecy, but not privacy).
Shun!
I think it falls into the same pitfalls as most super niche communities, like a lot of subreddits did.
For example, the shaving subreddit (/r/wicked_edge I think?). Its mission statement was to introduce people to cleaner, safer, and more efficient shaving methods. And for the most part, with all of its resources and wikis, it successfully did it. But if you choose to stay after you’ve made your informed purchases, the posts were mostly braggarts showing off their latest hundreds-of-dollars handles, supreme razor blades, brushes made from actual gold, that sort of thing. My point is, the average person (by my guess, like 90% of people going to the site) gets the information they need and then never participate in the community again. But those who stay are those who really want to stay– people who are most likely to brag and boast. So over time, it falls more and more into plain old dick measuring contests.
This obviously isn’t true of all communities, but I think it’s a common pitfall for a lot of them. I can imagine privacy is very similar: take all the steps you can to learn to protect your privacy, and then… you’re good, for the most part.
Wow this is great I am surprised to see people talking about this (let alone even being aware of it).
Really refreshing to not have it to be a contest to follow random dogmas.
Lemmy is refreshingly smarter than I was used to seeing on Reddit.
Hahahaha
Not have it be a contest to follow random dogmas
Lemmy is refreshingly smarter than… reddit
I don’t know if this was intentional or not, but either way this was hilarious!!
Lol this is 100% the truth. Privacy communities are a fucking meme. 99% of posts are just people circlejerking about Firefox vs Brave.
Most cryptocurrency communities use Discord or Telegram. It’s such an embarrasment.
You should check privacy coin Monero.
Matrix and XMPP is pretty much popular in XMR community
And often discord and telegram channels are bridged with other platforms.
Oh I hate communities that use Telegram. I mean, sure, I guess there’s better privacy, but Telegram was just not built for that. Messages always get lost, and there are no channels, which means no info channel, so they have to try and cram everything into the description.
I’ve never understood this either, given the whole notion and enthusiasm behind decentralization. I get the trade-offs regarding privacy, security, and convenience, but if you’re really tryna start a movement, and you really believe in the concept and principles of something like cryptocurrency, it seems like your communities and communication channels should also reflect similar values.
And that’s where you realize that them defending decentralization is just trying to have a nice-sounding argument instead of assuming their dreams of getting rich with new tech
Should be telling the only two services they use is one infamous for fuck tons of child grooming and one infamous for fuck tons of terrorism.
Omg fuck discord so much
I don’t understand why it’s so popular… It’s a fancy IRC that’s centralized by a single company
Because it has significantly more features than IRC and it’s dead simple to spin up your own “server” where you aren’t beholden much to “admins” or whatever.
fancy IRC
IRC was already “caveman playing with sticks and pebbles” a decade before discord became a thing. It’s really not a good point of comparison and questioning.
Discord became popular for one simple reason: anyone could make a server, share it with a crossplatform link, and others could then try out that link without installing anything. In other words, it became popular because it literally copied Slack and because the Skype era was atrociously bad customization and ease of use-wise compared to the preceding.
If you legitimately don’t understand why it’s popular, you are seriously out of touch.
- Better moderation tools
- Easier to do voice/video channels
- Easy to create your own server
- Huge amount of useful bots created by the community
- Features like replies, threads, onboarding screens, and custom emotes
Don’t get me wrong, I wish that we could use a FOSS platform instead of Discord, but 1: people are already using Discord and it’s hard to get everyone to switch platform, and 2: there is no comparable alternative right now
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Dude, Matrix mod tools are pretty much universally complained about, and I say that as a person who uses Matrix as a mod.
I use it because some of my favorite games for the Nintendo DS that has Wiimmfi support use it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Too hard to regrow the, already tiny user base in those cases.
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It’s the emojis for me tbh. I’m not sorry
Lazyness and convenience, as always.
Thank you! It’s basically impossible to use discord anonymously
you can use webcord as a frontend qhich is better but it still is a shitshow
Inb4 aNoNiMiTy iS nOt tHe sAmE aS pRiVaCy
It literally isn’t.
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I’m told discord is encrypted too, so could you be more specific?
Discord isn’t encrypted at all
It’s encrypted between you and discord. So somebody on your Wi-Fi can’t see what you’re typing. But it’s not encrypted end to end. Discord can see everything that people talk about. And that’s the problem
That’s just ssl tho
Secure socket layer is a type of encryption. So discord can correctly claim it is encrypted. And the commenter above can get confused by that. Confusing user to server encryption and end-to-end encryption where the messages are encrypted between users is important distinction.
Yeah ur right, it is encryption, barely, but it is “military grade encryption”
Ceaser cipher is a type of encrypton. That doesn’t make it safe. Nor is TLS with a terribly broken PKI.
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I’ve used the Discord bridge before; it works pretty well, and allows Matrix users to practice better (identity & tracking) privacy if they want. There is none, in Discord.
It does require (a) the Discord community admin to allow the bridge, and (b) some playing with configuration of the bridge to get banning working.
The biggest issue with Matrix is how privacy-respecting it is. Any public forum with anonymous account creation is subject to spam bots, and requires more work by admins. The biggest complaint about the bridge, and why so many Discord admins do not allow it, is because it greatly increases the spam they have to deal with. Kicking and blocking do work fine through the bridge, but it’s still a distraction requiring constant vigilance.
Matrix needs better admin tools (where have we heard that before?) Mjolnir is good, but the freely hosted instance was shut down a year or so ago, so it’s not available to casual users. And taking on running a service just for a community bridge is a silly requirement.
My points are, that it’s not an either-or, but that it requires work. It’s a question of commitment, not possibility. c/privacy could have a Matrix-first, privacy-friendly approach and still offer Discord for privacy casuals; it’s just harder.
People who dislike discord and want a good alternative besides matrix should check out revolt.chat <3
Because conversations about increasing privacy doesn’t need to be private. It’s usually about learning about other tools and that they exist.
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This only makes sense if discord is a common entry point into the community which seems unlikely to me
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Tencent is not a data collection company. Discord is not owned by tencent instead tencent and tons of other companies have invested in discord. https://businessmodelanalyst.com/who-owns-discord/
Tencent itself doesn’t get discords data. Tencent is not required by law to pass all user information to CCP.
Discord like any communication systems is required to pass data to all major governments when they are investigating crime. Such as the USA and FBI. Your lemmy instance does the same thing.
Please state facts rather than misinformation. If you are going to pass off these facts provide sources.
Pretty much all companies are data collection companies, or they have data collection services tacked onto their software. However, in this case, Tencent is a company in China, and China is a data collection country.
Tencent is not required by law to pass all user information to CCP.
If China wants to see it, then yes they are required by law to pass information to the CCP.
China is a data collection country.
Cause the USA isn’t?
If China wants to see it, then yes they are required by law to pass information to the CCP.
You should look up the PRISM program.
If you are going to label Tencent as purely a data collection company belonging to a data collection country then let me remind you that Linux had a social media site that collected a lot of information that could have been turned over to the US federal law enforcement due to prism and the US laws SCA and CLOUD acts.
So literally if that’s your definition, the Linux Foundation is a data collection company too.
I’m not athletic enough to keep up with your logical leaps.
Your only source is to counter a claim I didn’t make. I’m not going to do your homework. If you’re worried about privacy, don’t use Discord. That’s the short version.
Your only source is “trust me bro”
Citing sources is the task of the one putting the argument on the table in the first place
-My kitchen is made out of uranium
-That’s not true
-Do you have a source to back this up?
Doesnt workA majority stake of Discord is owned by Tencent
You said this. My source proves this wrong.
You are spreading misinformation. I am not going to do your homework to prove your claims.
This, discord saying no to Microsoft’s offer to buy them out few years back shows they know what they got.
I guess people just prefer and are more active on Discord
“I guess people just prefer and are more active on Facebook Messenger”
“I guess people just prefer and are more active on TikTok”
“discussing privacy on discord” that should be a joke anyways i created privacy@conference.jabbers.one so join if you want
Because this community (along with all privacy subreddits/communities) are a fucking meme.
Wanna go crazy? Use SimpleXchat
SimpleX is great, better than all P2P messengers
why
Unlike P2P, messenges are sent over easily replacable relay servers so both parties don’t have to be online at the same time to exchange messenges.
SimpleX is special because it is the only messenger that has no permanent user identifiers whatsoever. Not even a randomly generated string of characters and numbers. This implies a LOT more privacy and security, especially for metadata-protection.
The server of Signal for example can’t read your messages, but they know who sent how many messages at what time to which people. They know your entire graph of social connections. SimpleX does not.
Here’s a comparison with other messengers: https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/blob/stable/docs/SIMPLEX.md#comparison-with-other-protocols
It’s decentralized, which therefore makes it harder than even Session.
It tries its best to be user friendly tho, that’s a main concern of the dev. You should hear him talk in the main support group, he’s really good.
You can also connect to the dev directly to express any concerns or ask questions. He will actually listen to you and shift his focus if multiple people tell him the same thing.
However, the software is only a few years old (much younger than all the other established messengers) and may not be ready for public use yet, but surely in the future.
I’m interested in the day it hits the Linux Desktop, but being even on iOS is crazy imo.
A cross-platform desktop client recently got released. Synchronization with the mobile app is not yet supported tho.
why
