Stuff like “stupid, idiot, moron, dumb,” you know the ones. If you’re insulting someone for their shitty garbage beliefs and all you can manage to come up with is ways to insult their intelligence, appearance, or other aspect about them that has nothing to do with their cruelty and shittyness, you should maybe reevaluate.
Just saw a thread on here where a user was stubbornly refusing to adjust their language when another user politely pointed out that it was harmful to our comrades as well, and the person refusing was massively upvoted and the comrade trying to explain why it was harmful was downvoted. Thought we were better than that
I’m not calling anyone out, just wanted to make a post explaining my feelings on it and that when stuff like that happens (not the intelligence based insults, I know its hard to switch, but getting insulted for asking people to avoid them) it hurts and makes me feel less welcome here </3
Using words like “You’re being ignorant” or “That’s a cruel belief” is actually more effective than just going “lmao idiot”.
If those are the words you actually mean to convey I’d say use them instead :)
Edit: if the reception this post got isn’t a good proof that this is something this community needs to grapple with, I don’t know what is.
we can be assholes without being assholes, ya know?
Call them revisionists and liberals and reactionaries and fascists and racists and sexists and ableist, use the fucking language socialism already gave you
You’re not a “radical Communist” when you hurt marginalized comrades, you’re a fashy asshole
guess what? slurs aren’t a hill you have to fucking die on for Communism to be successful, we’ll simply forgive you assholes when you stop using them like everyone else is asking you to
fascism is when you call someone an idiot
Completely correct ;)
None of the words he listed are “slurs”, despite how much some people want them to be. They are just normal insults.
I’m autistic and if someone called me stupid I would probably be mad at them, but I wouldn’t consider it ableist. Unless the conversation has enough context that they’re using the word in reference to that.
Using “re[dacted]” or “autistic” as a stand in for words like stupid or dumb are ableist. Using stupid and dumb to attack someone for their mental disability is ableist. But stupid and dumb themselves aren’t.
Yes! I’m a reasonable person. I’m fully aware they are in common use.
Quill is not asking for moderators to ban these words, Quill is opening a struggle session to bring comrades to new unities. This is part of the process of unity / mindcleansing / decolonization / struggle.
We are asking you to consider the arguments and come to revolutionary positions with us.
Nobody is asking for the words to be banned, they’re trying to get you to do self-criticism, identify the sentiments that lead comrades astray, and join us.
This is no longer Reddit. We are no longer that in that combat position on their fascist island. We don’t have to appeal to fascist tendencies to win converts.
This post should be accepted with minimal controversy. Many lefty spaces on reddit that I was in first before I found CTH (Rip) already had rules in place to prevent ableist and other such insults - sure, it seemed a bit weird to me, accustomed to using them daily, but with little effort and some time I almost completely removed them from my vocabulary.
Strive to be better, friends, we’re all in this together.
Strive to be better, friends, we’re all in this together.
Exactly! Thanks comrade :)
When I first found this community one of the first things I saw was the line “To each according to their need, from each according to their ability.” I cried after seeing that quote and reading the comments of people discussing it. I’m neurodivergent. I have Autism and ADHD, and pretty much until I found this place and leftism in general hated myself and was crushed under my own ableism and brain worms. If I couldn’t understand something simple everyone else could it must be because I’m just stupid, if I couldn’t do something others could it’s because I’m a failure.
So, seeing this was pretty much the first time I felt like I was allowed to exist, that it was okay there were things I sucked at. That it’s not that I am bad, but that the expectations of hellworld are. That I didn’t have to punish myself for this ‘failure.’ It’s one of the most pivotal moments of my short life, without a doubt.
to each according to their need and from each according to their ability holds true and some of us occasionally calling people stupid still has nothing to do with you
Almost like it was a tangent and not me saying that this proves you shouldn’t use intelligence based insults
You’re just going through this whole thread looking for opportunities to jab me, wth
I recognized this a while back and since then I’ve actively removed those terms from my everyday vocabulary. Even if it seems like a very low-priority issue to some, I recognize that it’s considered ableist by marginalized groups, so I want to do better. I don’t see why this can’t be everyone’s response, it’s not that hard to use different (and more precise) words.
That’s a great way to think about it! Also made me think of how it’s similar to switching to they/them as default pronouns, because means I’m much less likely to cause someone harm by accident, and I think that alone makes it worth the effort since there’s no downsides.
can I still call people pp head and poopoo head?
Chapo last week: haha r slash animemes is getting upset about not being allowed to say tr*p
Chapo this week: what do you mean my words hurt people?
Great minds
Shut up, nerd. How’s that for an intellgence based insult, four eyes.
Not a great time for a joke like that comrade, it’s honestly pretty hurtful and diminishing
I know its an obvious joke, but for real, trying to have a difficult conversation
I agree that we shouldnt call people stupid or dumb but I will never give up my ability to call people smarter than me a nerd
Totally fair haha, I’m probably being oversensitive at this point because of how some people are reacting to this post. Sorry <3
It’s no big deal, man. You can’t control your chemistry. What’s your take on calling actions stupid or dumb instead of targetting the person. I haven’t thought on it too much but my gut instinct is it’s better.
I’d say it’s probably better than the alternative, but I think focusing on why the actions themselves were bad or flawed is more useful, especially when it comes to yourself. Makes it easier to find the root of the problem and come up with solutions to improve :)
Yeah I meant in a critical fashion. “What you did was dumb because of X, I know you can do better” yadda yadda
I’m really fucking bummed out by the response to this. It really fucking stings when nominally “woke” people who understand why calling things “gay” is bad, but when suddenly your ND ass is the one targeted by language you’re expected to just put up with it. People keep saying “I know where you’re coming from, but” and then just explain why they really, really don’t.
Stop making fun of people who don’t have chins, too. Being weird looking doesn’t make you a Nazi and if you’re going to mock them mock them for being a Nazi.
Like, people are making fun of fat nazis in body armor and shit because… they don’t look like the fake media image of hard core ripped Nazi skinheads that the media uses to make being a skinhead seem like a cool bad boy thing.
Of course they don’t look like that. They’re just Americans, and Americans are fat because we have too much sugar in everything we consume. Being a Nazi doesn’t make someone fat and being fat doesn’t make someone a Nazi, and mocking them for being fat is just shitty.
i haven no idea why this post is downvoted so much. like on a basic level i thought we had already moved past body shaming and understood mocking evil people for their bodies makes good people with similar bodies feel like shit.
I feel like it’s worth noting that admitting you’re wrong or using ableist language is HARD, but it’s part of the growing process. the fact is, at some point in time, I’d be willing to bet that all of us have used ableist language at some point and then learned why it’s harmful. I’m thinking in particular about words that were “cool” to use in like, middle school or high school. or, language I used two weeks ago that I didn’t know was ableist, and now I do.
There’s nothing wrong with making a mistake, especially if you didn’t think of it as harmful. Most people don’t call someone stupid and think of it as making fun of a disability. They say it to make a point. But I’d suggest everyone reading consider this – we don’t know each other in real life. You don’t know if someone is struggling with something, and for all you know, whatever word you’re using is the same word kids used to make fun of a comrade when they were younger, or even as an adult. Just be mindful and think about the impact your words could have on ANYONE reading your posts/comments. Think of all the slurs you wouldn’t dare use and the reason you don’t use them. Then think about other words that could have the same effect, but just aren’t as accepted necessarily as “slurs” in general society.
Side note, making fun of someone’s intelligence also suggests that someone who may have an intellectual disability or even just be neurodivergent and not think the same way you do has opinions of lesser value. While yes, you probably don’t mean that with your words, it contributes to a stigma that benefits no one.
TL;DR: think about the person on the receiving end and write what you actually mean to tell them, not the insult you shout when you’re mad/frustrated
This is correct and good.
Bad: Ben Shapiro is a short, ugly moron.
Good: Ben Shapiro is short and ugly.
If you’re insulting someone for their shitty garbage beliefs and all you can manage to come up with is ways to insult their intelligence, appearance, or other aspect about them that has nothing to do with their cruelty and shittyness, you should maybe reevaluate.
I sometimes wonder how to ride the line between sensitivity towards marginalized people like disabled people, and being understanding/tolerant about the problematic language of most people so as not to be alienating and harmful to growth. I can see why the words you listed present issues, but given that they’re so common to most people’s language (not to say that it should remain that way), what is a good course of action (not that it’s all on any one person to come up with a solution)?
that’s a solid point, but consider this for a second: every word that is accepted as being, well, unacceptable was once acceptable. it starts by politely correcting someone when they say it and explaining why the language can be harmful. from there, most people will change their wording and move on. you’ll always have some people who fight back, but the idea is to have enough people that using these terms is no longer the norm
I get where you’re coming from Quill, and I think full blown slurs like re[dacted] are should unambiguously be denounced. But I’m not sure if extending this to any language that could be considered ableist is productive. There’s an enormous range of possible disabilities and a lot of language that can be considered ableist in one way or another.
I absolutely understand where you’re coming from :)
But what I’d ask is this: Is using intelligence based insults (and other ableist language as you mentioned) productive? Does it allow for uniquely powerful rhetorical uses? Does it do a job better than any other insult or criticism could?
In my view, insults like these are not only less effective than criticizing people for their actual monstrous beliefs and actions, but when they’re used instead it means the person isn’t getting criticized for those (fundamentally bad) things.
Gonna drop a quote here from @hogposting because I think they said it better than I can
Big difference between wokescolding and: “Hey you know how we all figured out that using the r-word is pretty fucked? Maybe we should think a little about how we’re using other, less severe insults designed to communicate the exact same thing.”
Even if you’re not bought in on that, there are so many more creative, precise ways to insult someone that aren’t “ur a dum dum.”
But what I’d ask is this: Is using intelligence based insults (and other ableist language as you mentioned) productive? Does it allow for uniquely powerful rhetorical uses?
Yes, it releases stress (which allows for clearer thinking) and insults chuds in a language they understand
so fuck off, stupidWhat the fuck
nop doesnt sound right
What do you mean?
good to see the trend of “i’m in argument in another thread, time to make a new thread about it” has continued from reddit
More like, argument about another site’s rules in another thread…
Don’t get me wrong OP, I’m not going to defend ableist language - but I really haven’t seen any directed at actual users here. Maybe I’m literally blind to the issue, but… Chill mby?
The other site or rules are irrelevant to why I made this post, I made it because someone bringing up “hey lets avoid insults like this” got massively downvoted and the person insulting them was upvoted. A discussion on this is clearly needed
From the context it seemed like people were upvoting because the poster was shitting on raddle tbh. But from some of the more reactionary reactions in this here thread I’d tend to agree that a discussion may indeed be warranted. Either way, it’s going on now so feel free to disregard me entirely
Could very well be true, I quite often miss stuff like that, could be the case here. And no way, I’m not going to disregard you comrade, you were respectful and gave me info about another perspective outside my own which I always appreciate :)
