What do you mean when you say ‘pro gun?’ Do you mean you are in favor of guns being legal with absolutely no regulation whatsoever or do you mean that you are in favor of guns being legal but highly regulated?
It’s really not an either/or situation like some people think it is.
And are they pro-gun where it’s on the side or do they talk about being all supportive while prioritizing it over healthcare and actually well supported and well researched economic policy? I think guns are neat and used to have my license but I’d never put them ahead of literally any issue. Progun politicians don’t build better societies or respect people’s basic human rights.
Kinda sick of the “I care about human rights up until they affect my ability to own a firearm” group. They’re just tiresome.
I’m in Texas right now, and tbh I feel like Democrats would be able to do a lot more good here if they let go of gun control for now and focused on actually being electable in Texas so they can work on the multitudes of other issues there are to fix. You could even probably reduce shootings by fixing social issues, but you have to be elected first. If they did well long enough to prove some more liberal ideas work, people may trust them enough for gun control to happen one day.
Bruh, after Beto lost to Greg Fucking Pissbaby Asshole Fuckface Abbott, I started to think the Dems here are doing it on purpose. Beto got decently close, and the only thing Republicans could play against him was the “Hell yeah I’m taking your guns!” Clip over and over. If they didn’t have that clip of him getting emotional (in response to a hometown shooting), then he would have won.
I really am wondering why we don’t have a decent pro-2A Dem candidate, and the only thing I can think is that Texas Dems don’t want to win.
The backbone of the Democrats as a party is the reliable fundraising from the liberal-conservative dems. The corpo Dems like Biden and Harris. They allow the progressives to say the promises and then withhold those promises. Those corporate pandering Dems are also the ones who scream loudest about guns being evil instead of finding understanding, like so many other issues.
Those corporate Dems are also likely to collab with Conservatives and then say “I know they have only been acting in bad faith for a decade but maybe THIS time things will be different.” And no one is surprised or learns anything. Then repeat.
Progress doesn’t happen with corporations involved. Progress happens when decision are made and enforced upon corporations.
I’m with OG OP, liberal with firearms. Raised in Texas, veteran, and came to my senses regarding the politics I was raised in. I both (a) like shooting and (b) feel the need to have home protection. I think they should be regulated.
With that, I don’t understand your comment at all.
being all supportive while prioritizing it over healthcare and actually well supported and well researched economic policy
I will be honest with you. This makes no sense. One is economic while the other is fanaticism. You are comparing apples to oranges. Let me flip your closing statement on you:
Kinda sick of the “I care about human rights up until they affect my ability to take away firearms” group.
Because, again, this proposed stalemate is idealists vs fanatics drawing lines in the sand. You can’t just blame one side. The fact there is no movement is the entire point of polarization in politics.
It makes plenty of sense: There are scores of people who will vote for the absolute scum of the earth if it means they can keep their firearms. Losing even the slightest grip on their firearms is the dealbreaker and not the myriad of human rights abuses and other heinous shit conservative parties get up to.
You can separate the groups out all you want but it doesn’t matter once that vote is cast, and pro-gun politicians come with all the extra baggage. Your vote doesn’t come with a note saying “guns only, please don’t violate minorities’ rights/destroy the economy to enrich the least deserving people imaginable”. Your vote just says “yes” and they take that as far as they can go. They don’t give a shit about you or your opinion after you helped put them in power.
You know what will make you safer? Voting for parties that will create policy that helps reduce poverty. Unlike gun ownership that’s actually a well-documented way to make everyone safer.
I’d describe myself as fairly liberal. I’m from Vermont and I am pretty bummed that neither Howard Dean nor Bernie Sanders got to be president. I’ve voted D in every presidential and congressional election for the last twenty years.
A couple elections ago I was doing non-partisan voter registration, just standing out in front of a big box store asking people to register to vote. It felt great because I got the feeling that I was directly helping, and even if I was registering some people who would go on to vote R, I actually believe that the more voters there are, the healthier the democracy.
I asked one young guy to register and he asked me “Do you believe in the right to keep and bear arms?”
And I thought about how the marjority of gun deaths in any given year are suicides and how we have an absolutely unacceptable number of mass shootings in this country, and how by all that is reasonable that we ought to be able to do something about it.
And then I thought about my uncles who hunt white tail deer to help control the population, and my friend who is a self-employed gem cutter and who has been robbed and who now owns a pistol for self defense.
And in all honestly, I said “Yes,” though on the inside I thought “…but probably not in the exact same way that you do,” and that young guy registered to vote.
Yes is probably the best answer you can give someone like that because they see it as only having two absolute answers. To say yes with conditions would be heard as a no after years of brainwashing.
I support the spirit of the second amendment, but also think it was written badly, or at least very restrictive to the time period it originated in and not adaptable to a changing society. It’s not a surprise that it remains hotly debated and disagreed on its meaning though, since even the first amendment that is much clearer on its intent is now also debated by some to suit their own purposes and not for the greater public good.
In my state you can just walk into a store at 21 and buy a handgun then concealed carry it. You don’t have to prove proficiency, know you to service or maintain it, or even prove you know basic gun safety rules. All you do is bring money and ID, then wait for the waiting period to expire. It is bonkers.
I want them to repeal the NFA, along with many of the other laws designed to disarm the poor, and people of color. And in general getting rid of a lot of the laws that do virtually nothing to affect criminals.
Should there be any laws at all regarding guns and who can have them? Should five-year-olds be allowed to have guns? Should dangerously psychotic people who are regularly institutionalized have guns?
Do you want many gun regulations, some gun regulations or no gun regulations? Because people who want any of those things can and do call themselves “pro-gun.”
Why you and others seem to think “pro-gun is what I believe and not anything else” is beyond me.
If you are over the age of 18 and not mentally adjudicated you should be allowed to purchase guns. If you’re under 18 and “gifted” a gun then just like the child, it’s the parents prerogative to make sure it’s safe. If we trust you to be out of prison then you should be allowed all of your rights back as a citizen (none of this you got a felony you’re never allowed to vote garbage). Outside of that I want very few other restrictions.
What if OP thinks differently? What if they think you shouldn’t have a gun if you’re mentally ill but also believe that 12-year-olds should be allowed to purchase guns?
Does that mean they are not pro-gun or does that mean “pro-gun” is too broad a term?
me personally, i like the fact that i have the capability of owning one. Much like anything else in life, i like being in control of things i interact with and use from day to day life. It’s why im a linux user, it’s why i self host a lot of services that i use. I do not like being dependent on others for things that i know i adequately provide for myself.
It’s no more than feeding my individualism at the end of the day. And i don’t think that’s a negative thing. I’m sure people would tell me im a shitty person for not wanting to contribute to society, but i also never wanted to exist in the first place, so i think it’s a little fucking daft to claim that i owe something to a thing i’m not particularly fond of to begin with. But that’s a different rant altogether so.
I want sensible gun laws, but I also want gun laws to make sense.
That means, removing all restrictions on items like suppressors, AR15s, SBRs, etc. But allowing only people that can show they are competent to own them.
Agreed. Especially about suppressors. It’s a safety devise. It will save your ears. Countries like Sweden and Norway even get that aspect, suppressors are encouraged to keep the peace with neighbors and are not regulated like firearms even. Anyone can own one as soon as they can own a gun.
I was shocked at the suppressor cost and process having recently gone through it. I got a suppressor for my .22, I primarily use it when I’m out walking my small dog. I can fire the .22 and it isn’t loud (I was not expecting it to be movie gun quiet but it is) so it is ear protection for both of us, he doesn’t startle, and my neighbors are far enough apart they would never hear it. So next time coyotes see him as food instead of challenge my unarmed willingness to defend my dog I’ll be more prepared.
It’s an expensive, long, and involved process that disadvantages folks with less resources than myself which bothered me.
Yeah, I guess it’s relative. It didn’t bother me paying for the stamp but I’ve been at points in my life where I had to make sure I could get enough gas to make it to work. Granted a firearm and suppressor wouldn’t be on my radar in those conditions but my mind has a tendency to go that direction whenever I’m exercising what I consider a freedom. In another conversation I’m complaining about $3,500 so far into ortho treatment for one of my sons, with insurance. Not because it put me out but how many families and kids aren’t getting effective care because they’re in a less fortunate place? Sorry, got off topic.
I’m in favor of guns the way they do it in, IIRC, Switzerland? One of the countries in that part of the world anyway (I’m always confusing them with each other). They have nearly as many guns in the hands of public citizens, with none of the crime. If they can do it, so can we.
I believe guns should be able to abort as many babies as they want to. But I don’t believe in Marijuana. Like, I don’t believe pot exists. It’s a conspiracy theory to make people think a plant could make you lazy or creative. Think about it.
Marx also wrote extensively on “the Jewish question”, the man should not, nor would he have wanted, to be taken as an orthodoxy of leftist doctrine.
I believe the proletariat can well be armed without anything of the sort of shameful nakedness which governs US gun ownership and responsibility, gun ownership of the proletariat is well possible in many countries that have far more sensible laws regarding firearms than the US.
Marx routinely expected too much from people. The proles do nothing with their guns except execute each other while their government gets away with horrific things and the human race hurtles towards extinction.
It’s time to accept that guns are no better at solving social problems than they are at solving plumbing issues and tech complaints.
What do you mean when you say ‘pro gun?’ Do you mean you are in favor of guns being legal with absolutely no regulation whatsoever or do you mean that you are in favor of guns being legal but highly regulated?
It’s really not an either/or situation like some people think it is.
And are they pro-gun where it’s on the side or do they talk about being all supportive while prioritizing it over healthcare and actually well supported and well researched economic policy? I think guns are neat and used to have my license but I’d never put them ahead of literally any issue. Progun politicians don’t build better societies or respect people’s basic human rights.
Kinda sick of the “I care about human rights up until they affect my ability to own a firearm” group. They’re just tiresome.
I’m in Texas right now, and tbh I feel like Democrats would be able to do a lot more good here if they let go of gun control for now and focused on actually being electable in Texas so they can work on the multitudes of other issues there are to fix. You could even probably reduce shootings by fixing social issues, but you have to be elected first. If they did well long enough to prove some more liberal ideas work, people may trust them enough for gun control to happen one day.
Bruh, after Beto lost to Greg Fucking Pissbaby Asshole Fuckface Abbott, I started to think the Dems here are doing it on purpose. Beto got decently close, and the only thing Republicans could play against him was the “Hell yeah I’m taking your guns!” Clip over and over. If they didn’t have that clip of him getting emotional (in response to a hometown shooting), then he would have won.
I really am wondering why we don’t have a decent pro-2A Dem candidate, and the only thing I can think is that Texas Dems don’t want to win.
The backbone of the Democrats as a party is the reliable fundraising from the liberal-conservative dems. The corpo Dems like Biden and Harris. They allow the progressives to say the promises and then withhold those promises. Those corporate pandering Dems are also the ones who scream loudest about guns being evil instead of finding understanding, like so many other issues.
Those corporate Dems are also likely to collab with Conservatives and then say “I know they have only been acting in bad faith for a decade but maybe THIS time things will be different.” And no one is surprised or learns anything. Then repeat.
Progress doesn’t happen with corporations involved. Progress happens when decision are made and enforced upon corporations.
I’m with OG OP, liberal with firearms. Raised in Texas, veteran, and came to my senses regarding the politics I was raised in. I both (a) like shooting and (b) feel the need to have home protection. I think they should be regulated.
With that, I don’t understand your comment at all.
I will be honest with you. This makes no sense. One is economic while the other is fanaticism. You are comparing apples to oranges. Let me flip your closing statement on you:
Because, again, this proposed stalemate is idealists vs fanatics drawing lines in the sand. You can’t just blame one side. The fact there is no movement is the entire point of polarization in politics.
It makes plenty of sense: There are scores of people who will vote for the absolute scum of the earth if it means they can keep their firearms. Losing even the slightest grip on their firearms is the dealbreaker and not the myriad of human rights abuses and other heinous shit conservative parties get up to.
You can separate the groups out all you want but it doesn’t matter once that vote is cast, and pro-gun politicians come with all the extra baggage. Your vote doesn’t come with a note saying “guns only, please don’t violate minorities’ rights/destroy the economy to enrich the least deserving people imaginable”. Your vote just says “yes” and they take that as far as they can go. They don’t give a shit about you or your opinion after you helped put them in power.
You know what will make you safer? Voting for parties that will create policy that helps reduce poverty. Unlike gun ownership that’s actually a well-documented way to make everyone safer.
I’d describe myself as fairly liberal. I’m from Vermont and I am pretty bummed that neither Howard Dean nor Bernie Sanders got to be president. I’ve voted D in every presidential and congressional election for the last twenty years.
A couple elections ago I was doing non-partisan voter registration, just standing out in front of a big box store asking people to register to vote. It felt great because I got the feeling that I was directly helping, and even if I was registering some people who would go on to vote R, I actually believe that the more voters there are, the healthier the democracy.
I asked one young guy to register and he asked me “Do you believe in the right to keep and bear arms?”
And I thought about how the marjority of gun deaths in any given year are suicides and how we have an absolutely unacceptable number of mass shootings in this country, and how by all that is reasonable that we ought to be able to do something about it.
And then I thought about my uncles who hunt white tail deer to help control the population, and my friend who is a self-employed gem cutter and who has been robbed and who now owns a pistol for self defense.
And in all honestly, I said “Yes,” though on the inside I thought “…but probably not in the exact same way that you do,” and that young guy registered to vote.
And honestly, I consider that a win.
this is the perfect answer to the entirety of this thread.
Yes is probably the best answer you can give someone like that because they see it as only having two absolute answers. To say yes with conditions would be heard as a no after years of brainwashing.
I support the spirit of the second amendment, but also think it was written badly, or at least very restrictive to the time period it originated in and not adaptable to a changing society. It’s not a surprise that it remains hotly debated and disagreed on its meaning though, since even the first amendment that is much clearer on its intent is now also debated by some to suit their own purposes and not for the greater public good.
I’m very liberal and own several guns and I 100% think most people shouldn’t own guns because they are not responsible enough for them.
Same on all fronts.
In my state you can just walk into a store at 21 and buy a handgun then concealed carry it. You don’t have to prove proficiency, know you to service or maintain it, or even prove you know basic gun safety rules. All you do is bring money and ID, then wait for the waiting period to expire. It is bonkers.
In MO there is really no waiting period and you can ccw with no permit. You can carry a pistol in MO at iirc 18.
I want them to repeal the NFA, along with many of the other laws designed to disarm the poor, and people of color. And in general getting rid of a lot of the laws that do virtually nothing to affect criminals.
Should there be any laws at all regarding guns and who can have them? Should five-year-olds be allowed to have guns? Should dangerously psychotic people who are regularly institutionalized have guns?
Do you want many gun regulations, some gun regulations or no gun regulations? Because people who want any of those things can and do call themselves “pro-gun.”
Why you and others seem to think “pro-gun is what I believe and not anything else” is beyond me.
If you are over the age of 18 and not mentally adjudicated you should be allowed to purchase guns. If you’re under 18 and “gifted” a gun then just like the child, it’s the parents prerogative to make sure it’s safe. If we trust you to be out of prison then you should be allowed all of your rights back as a citizen (none of this you got a felony you’re never allowed to vote garbage). Outside of that I want very few other restrictions.
What if OP thinks differently? What if they think you shouldn’t have a gun if you’re mentally ill but also believe that 12-year-olds should be allowed to purchase guns?
Does that mean they are not pro-gun or does that mean “pro-gun” is too broad a term?
me personally, i like the fact that i have the capability of owning one. Much like anything else in life, i like being in control of things i interact with and use from day to day life. It’s why im a linux user, it’s why i self host a lot of services that i use. I do not like being dependent on others for things that i know i adequately provide for myself.
It’s no more than feeding my individualism at the end of the day. And i don’t think that’s a negative thing. I’m sure people would tell me im a shitty person for not wanting to contribute to society, but i also never wanted to exist in the first place, so i think it’s a little fucking daft to claim that i owe something to a thing i’m not particularly fond of to begin with. But that’s a different rant altogether so.
I want sensible gun laws, but I also want gun laws to make sense.
That means, removing all restrictions on items like suppressors, AR15s, SBRs, etc. But allowing only people that can show they are competent to own them.
Agreed. Especially about suppressors. It’s a safety devise. It will save your ears. Countries like Sweden and Norway even get that aspect, suppressors are encouraged to keep the peace with neighbors and are not regulated like firearms even. Anyone can own one as soon as they can own a gun.
I was shocked at the suppressor cost and process having recently gone through it. I got a suppressor for my .22, I primarily use it when I’m out walking my small dog. I can fire the .22 and it isn’t loud (I was not expecting it to be movie gun quiet but it is) so it is ear protection for both of us, he doesn’t startle, and my neighbors are far enough apart they would never hear it. So next time coyotes see him as food instead of challenge my unarmed willingness to defend my dog I’ll be more prepared.
It’s an expensive, long, and involved process that disadvantages folks with less resources than myself which bothered me.
200 bucks Ain’t bad for the stamp honestly. It’s never been inflation adjusted. But yeah the whole process is a massive waste of time.
Yeah, I guess it’s relative. It didn’t bother me paying for the stamp but I’ve been at points in my life where I had to make sure I could get enough gas to make it to work. Granted a firearm and suppressor wouldn’t be on my radar in those conditions but my mind has a tendency to go that direction whenever I’m exercising what I consider a freedom. In another conversation I’m complaining about $3,500 so far into ortho treatment for one of my sons, with insurance. Not because it put me out but how many families and kids aren’t getting effective care because they’re in a less fortunate place? Sorry, got off topic.
I’m in favor of guns the way they do it in, IIRC, Switzerland? One of the countries in that part of the world anyway (I’m always confusing them with each other). They have nearly as many guns in the hands of public citizens, with none of the crime. If they can do it, so can we.
You have to get a purchasing permit in Switzerland and concealed carry permits are rare. Which is more strict than the U.S.
I feel similarly to OP, so ill say imo regullations are fine like Brady Bill or Assault rifle bans, but I dont believe in disarming the proletariat.
Marx said under no circumstances should the proles give up their guns, and I tend to agree.
I think you’re totally missing my point because my point was that OP hasn’t explained how they felt. “Pro-gun” is virtually meaningless.
I believe guns should be able to abort as many babies as they want to. But I don’t believe in Marijuana. Like, I don’t believe pot exists. It’s a conspiracy theory to make people think a plant could make you lazy or creative. Think about it.
Whenever someone tells me they don’t believe in vaccines, this is exactly how I respond. “Like, you don’t believe they exist? They’re not real?”
Guns aren’t real. Anytime anyone fires a “gun” they are casting magic missile as a cantrip.
"Alakablam!"
https://youtu.be/t6OBk9YBLQU
I haven’t laughed so hard in ages, thank you for that!
He means we should be allowed to use and enjoy guns. Legally.
So without any regulations whatsoever? Anyone can have a gun from age 0 to 100 no matter how psychotic there might be?
Otherwise, I think there needs to be more specification on what “pro-gun” means.
that’s still basically meaningless, you can use guns legally in most countries, even the most restrictive ones.
Marx also wrote extensively on “the Jewish question”, the man should not, nor would he have wanted, to be taken as an orthodoxy of leftist doctrine.
I believe the proletariat can well be armed without anything of the sort of shameful nakedness which governs US gun ownership and responsibility, gun ownership of the proletariat is well possible in many countries that have far more sensible laws regarding firearms than the US.
Marx routinely expected too much from people. The proles do nothing with their guns except execute each other while their government gets away with horrific things and the human race hurtles towards extinction.
It’s time to accept that guns are no better at solving social problems than they are at solving plumbing issues and tech complaints.
My friends and I joke that the inner-city schools in our city don’t have shootings because the children are armed.