Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan's air defence zone on Wednesday accompanying five Chinese warships engaged in "combat readiness" patrols, the island's defence ministry said, the second such incursion this week.
Your account has been flagged for CCP tankie shill-like activity. Please review These Nuts and never forget that Mao killed more people than Stalin and Hitler combined!
Your logic is baffling. Hitler killed millions of people in the Holocaust. Mao killed millions more, yet he’s still a folk hero. Where is the disconnect here?
That the only way you can come to the conclusion that Mao “killed more” is if you’re deliberately downplaying how many Hitler killed, aka Holocaust denial.
I may have missed the lesson where numbers aren’t allowed to be bigger than other numbers, so let me rephrase this in a way you might be able to understand. The most conservative estimate of famine deaths during the Great Leap Forward (backward) is greater than the ENTIRE European Jewish population in 1933 by at least six million.
Famines were extremely common before the CPC came to power. Most Chinese people lived in extreme poverty, and life expectancy was less than 35, with no significant improvement under the KMT. In between Mao coming to power and his death, life expectancy in China nearly doubled. Today, average life expectancy in China has exceeded that of the US, a feat that would’ve been unimaginable back then.
It’s true that Mao made misteps (which the CPC readily admits), but those specific, dramatic events have been disproportionately elevated to obscure the more general trend, which has been drastic improvements in the lives of the people of China.
Of course, in addition to minimizing the frequency and severity of famines in pre-industrial China, your history books likely did not place the same level of blame on the British for the intentional famines which Ireland and India were subjected to, in which Britain did not only refuse to provide aid to their colonial subjects (often on the express basis that it would motivate people to work harder), but also did not cease their plundering - in both cases, food was exported out of the country while the people starved.
I read somewhere that Mao’s family was considered well off for peasants because they could afford eggs a few times a year. I have no idea if there’s any truth to that.
the GLF was economic policy made in response to withdrawal of soviet technological and financial aid during the sino-soviet split, one of the primary motivating factors of which being soviet insistence on china essentially allowing the soviets to recolonize the port of dalian to build a naval base from which to deploy its pacific fleet.
on top of being under sanctions from the west, the sino-soviet split further deprived china of markets with which to support its all-important capital intensive industries and so china was forced to resort to agricultural export as a method of making up the shortfall. collectivization was also pursued simultaneously to pool domestic capital for internal consumption, but due to various geographical, technical and political considerations, internal consumption was not sufficiently stimulated to support manufacturing, and so agricultural export became the primary way to finance china’s continued industrialization. most accounts that are not hysterically anti-communist (including liberal darling amartya sen) of the period around the 1958 famine have records of aggregate production being more than sufficient to sustain the overall population, with the primary points of failure being overzealous local governments in highly productive areas, as opposed to popular western conceptions of overbearing central government mandated directives.
all this to say that hitler and the holocaust’s relevance as a point of comparison to mao and the GLF as anything beyond ‘people died when he was in charge’ is laughably superficial and mostly only functions as a thought terminating associative fallacy for juicing your dopamine receptors in order to immunize your brain against more correct opinions.
I also like how you’re deliberately trying to whitewash Hitler by ignoring all the non-Jewish deaths he was responsible for.
Seriously, you’re trying to argue that Mao “killed” every single person who starved to death in a famine, but Hitler is completely innocent of any of the deaths that occurred in World War 2. It’s a double standard no one would employ unless they were trying to downplay Hitler’s crimes.
That’s how it works in a dictatorship right? The fish stinks from the head.
To address your disingenuous bad-faith argument, counting non-Jews you have 11 or so million total dead in the Holocaust, we are still nowhere near it. Fuck Hitler, fuck Stalin, fuck Mao, the CCP, and fuck the US federal government.
Hitler killed millions of people in the Holocaust.
Fascism did this, not Hitler alone. Fascism and Capitalist Imperialism (western as well) started a world war that killed nearly 100 million people in WW2. Mao did not kill anywhere near that much, it’s reactionary nonsense. China experienced the greatest increase in life expectancy in history under Mao
It’s funny how you clowns keep pretending that the only deaths Hitler caused were the ones that specifically happened in the death camps, as if he didn’t literally start WWII. And meanwhile you insist that every single stubbed toe and premature ejaculation that ever happened in a socialist country should be added to the “victims of communism” death toll.
Cancel culture is just changing the channel when there’s someone on your TV screen that you don’t like.
You want go clockwork orange and strap people down, tape their eyes open and force them to watch the things you want them to watch? Because that would ensure the freedom of the people on TV to say whatever they want, right? The freedom of Hollywood assholes are more important that our freedom to change the channel, amirite?
What the fuck are you even talking about with Hollywood and television? Are you on a script? Bitch, you’re the one complaining about cancel culture. You’re the one equating being made fun of for having stupid reactionary opinions to literal torture. Can you please put in the absolute bare minimum of effort when you speak to at least remember the topic of fucking discussion??
I haven’t been so befuddled by a completely deranged and incoherent reply since I last posted on . Buddy I do not miss dealing with dipshits like you.
My dude calls people statists but then also cites death tolls spouted by the US State department on Mao’s casualties is a level of mental gymnastics that may finally dethrone the Maga morons.
I’m sure there’s some explanation for how Mao killed 100,000,000 people but somehow the population of China went up and the life expectancy doubled under him. It can’t be because the US stat dept. exaggerated the deaths by an exponent tho.
China is fascist now, they can go on calling themselves communist in a vain attempt to have something resembling legitimacy. But any fool knows that when the ruling party is full of billionaires, that’s no communist system.
They Chinese people are a great people and deserve a better government than the fascist regime lead by Winnie Xi Pooh.
Because it’s not saying Chinese people look like Winnie the Pooh. It’s only Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh. Do you understand the distinction between insulting an ethnicity and insulting an individual?
And you must’ve been living under a rock (or behind a firewall in an authoritarian country) if you’ve never heard of Xi being compared to Winnie the Pooh. I hear he’s sensitive about it, and it’s banned to make such statements in China. But since I’m not in China and Xi is a piece of shit, this incentivizes me to insult that shithead in ways that hurts his fragile little ego.
You have it wrong. The Communist Party isnt producing billionaires or getting rich through corruption (at least not in the recent decade of anti corruption). Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
China is the only country that actually punishes billionaires for their crimes instead of giving them a slap on the wrist, house arrest or just straight up not punishing them. China executes billionaires when they commit a crime. Liu Han ordered a Mafia hit on a villager who protested one of his illegal real estate expansions, as well as a business rival. He was executed for murder. China is the only country in the world that would sentence someone worth $40 billion, let alone to death, let alone not given a presidential pardon. Jack Ma regularly oversteps and gets punished by the CPC.
The only billionaire the west has executed is Jeff Epstein (for entirely the wrong reasons). China’s executed 14+ in the last decade.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight. The party responsible for improving the lives for 1.4 billion people actually isn’t disliked in China. The Chinese are not without grievances with the government but literally no other political system in the world has matched Chinese progress over the last 70 years. The average Chinese person isn’t unaware of western Liberal democracy, it simply isn’t appealing. A system that’s basically a popularity contest that elects senile old men, cowboy actors and reality TV stars that have no business being statesmen is actually not a good system. Having lifetime appointed judges to interpret the words of long dead slave owners is not a good system. Having a leadership spill and a change of prime minister every year is not a good system. We can improve on freedom of expression, sure, but the Chinese people aren’t sheep who need to be liberated. Neoliberalism is the failure in the world, not the Chinese model.
Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
Yeah that’s how it works in a fascist system. The wealthy join the ruling party and gain connections to other wealthy people so they can all become wealthier.
The existence of billionaires in China indicates that China is not communist. If it were communist the wealth of the billionaires would be seized and redistributed to the people. China is a country where billionaires are legal and labour unions are illegal.
And your obsession with executions is indicative devaluing life. And it’s interesting that you buy into the conspiracy that Epstein was killed to silence him but haven’t considered the possibility that executions happen in China for the same reason.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight.
Then why isn’t there an election? Why aren’t opposition parties allowed in China? If the CCP would easily win an election, why not have them?
It’s because China is fascist. I think you’re confusing fascism with corporatism. They’re not at all the same. in fascism there’s a hierachy and corporations benefit by falling in line with the hierarchy. Winnie Xi Pooh (who shouldn’t even be leader, but pesky rules bout term limits don’t apply to autocrats) is at the top. Questioning his authority gets you executed. The leadership of China is most certainly misogynistic. The propaganda in China is all about century of humiliation kind of things. China is anti-democracy. These are all the properties of a fascist system.
And yeah fascists will lie about being left wing. See “National Socialism”.
Billionaires exist as a necessary evil, they’re not deities like they are to the west like Gates or Bezos, or a pillar of power like Russian oligarchs. China may not be Marxist as it is, but to completely cut away from the rest of the globe would be suicide. Market socialism relies on being a necessary part of the global economy, and China being able to manufacture in it’s current state while being able to raise the conditions of the proletariat makes it either the worst socialist state or the best capitalist state. Neither is worth of the vitriol it has received. If they must exist, better they exist for the benefit of the people rather than own media companies that push right wing agenda.
The fixation with executions comes from the accusation that billionaires are in charge. It they truly were, they wouldn’t be subject to the same laws as the common folk, and yet herr they are. Unlike Russia or the west, they are held accountable for their actions to a higher degree. All else equal, the CPC treats billionaires worse than any other form of government, and that’s not a bad thing.
For your second point re: elections:
Why? The US doesn’t even have free elections, an electoral college overrules pupular vote, nor does the UK, the king and house of Lords aren’t subject to democracy. The Soviets had a free election in 91, voted to remain socialist,nand it was hijacked by the west. Allende was democratically elected and the west supported the usurper. An election while liberalism exists is just inviting interference. Taiwan didn’t have elections for 4 decades and were still beloved by liberalss. The house of Saud doesn’t have elections, did 9/11 and is a close US ally.
If the outcome is obvious, why waste time and resources to indulge western sensibilities, as if bourgeoisie democracy is a human norm, when you can skip that step and move on with increasing society? If it just leads to a Chinese Jan 6th, or worse, why would that possibly be on the table? The CPC would win and somehow the losers would obtain US military grade weapons and seize power. And even if there were no interference and the CPC won anyway, guess what? Every paper in the west would claim it was rigged.
Source? Zhengfei couldn’t even keep his own daughter out of prison. Xi has been the one to crack down on billionaires (part of why a lot of my family like him better than Hu) so if it happened ages ago, I don’t remember. Even so, he’s less wealthy than Jack Ma, who is subject to the CPC’s rules, not vice versa.
All I know is the CPC has done more for the working class, lifted more workers out of poverty than any of the government’s that have earned your respect.
If all they wanted to do post 1989 was to maintain and expand power why the fuck haven’t they? Mongolia is right there, the Qing annexed it, the ROC annexed it, but the PRC can’t? Why forgive loans for Africa?
Why exempt Tibetans and Uyghurs and Mongolians from the One Child Policy? What kind of fascism does population control on the Han majority but not the minorities in their country?
If the goal was to acquire power, there are dozens of regimes that have done a better job at seizing absolute power, but instead the CPC open up more? The Juche government of the DPRK has absolute power, why didn’t China cloister itself from the world like pre Deng? Or start proxy wars in foreign countries to push nationalist jingoism?
I support my countrymen, no fascist thugs. If you’ve ever been to China you’d know it’s not some Orwellian nightmare state. Listening to the media’s portrayal of China when they lie or twist the truth on just about anything else is the brain worm talking. China’s fascist like Saddam has WMDs.
Think about where you’ve gotten your conception of China from and question whether or not they’re biased. You’re talking to someone with first hand experience in China.
I think you make some excellent points and I was glad to read much of what you wrote. If you don’t mind, I am curious about how concerned you are about the points raised above regarding women in positions of power and Xi’s unprecedented (to my knowledge) third term?
They Chinese people are a great people and deserve a better government than the fascist regime lead by Winnie Xi Pooh.
“I am totally not racist, I love the chinese people. I just love endlessly repeating that their leader is a yellow bear! funny, right?”
Idk how to tell you this, but the CPC and the Chinese state have like 90% approval from the Chinese people according to western academic sources beloved by libs.
What a useless definition. It doesn’t even consider the class character of fascism.
Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.
China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about “judeo-bolshevism” are not. The term “propaganda” here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be “propaganda about past grievances” to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense
If you’re living in a place where they will drive over you with a tank if you protest the rulers, you’re living in an authoritarian state. This isn’t exacltly a subtle thing.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years.
I’m not talking about a few weird comments here and there. I’m talking about the ruling class in China raping women and getting away with it because it’s considered ok for the rulers to rape women in their society. Because it’s a fascist society. Communism is supposed to espouse equality between men and women. But China isn’t communist anymore.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either.
“Century of humiliation! We must allow strongman Xi to rule over us for as long he wants to fight back against the westerners trying to humiliate us!”
This is standard fascist propaganda, fear of outsiders, citing past grievances as a reason for needing a strongman ruler.
In reality it’s the CCP is humiliating the Chinese people. It’s a garbage government. The people of China deserve better.
Fuck the CCP
Wow, so brave
Go cry more, nationalist
No, you must be mistaken, I do not support the KMT.
Nationalism is when you don’t reflexively post jingoistic slogans against your countries enemies whenever you see them mentioned in any context…
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Your account has been flagged for CCP tankie shill-like activity. Please review These Nuts and never forget that Mao killed more people than Stalin and Hitler combined!
Doing Holocaust denial to own the commies.
Your logic is baffling. Hitler killed millions of people in the Holocaust. Mao killed millions more, yet he’s still a folk hero. Where is the disconnect here?
That the only way you can come to the conclusion that Mao “killed more” is if you’re deliberately downplaying how many Hitler killed, aka Holocaust denial.
I may have missed the lesson where numbers aren’t allowed to be bigger than other numbers, so let me rephrase this in a way you might be able to understand. The most conservative estimate of famine deaths during the Great Leap Forward (backward) is greater than the ENTIRE European Jewish population in 1933 by at least six million.
pretending hitler only killed jews is holocaust denial
Famines were extremely common before the CPC came to power. Most Chinese people lived in extreme poverty, and life expectancy was less than 35, with no significant improvement under the KMT. In between Mao coming to power and his death, life expectancy in China nearly doubled. Today, average life expectancy in China has exceeded that of the US, a feat that would’ve been unimaginable back then.
It’s true that Mao made misteps (which the CPC readily admits), but those specific, dramatic events have been disproportionately elevated to obscure the more general trend, which has been drastic improvements in the lives of the people of China.
Of course, in addition to minimizing the frequency and severity of famines in pre-industrial China, your history books likely did not place the same level of blame on the British for the intentional famines which Ireland and India were subjected to, in which Britain did not only refuse to provide aid to their colonial subjects (often on the express basis that it would motivate people to work harder), but also did not cease their plundering - in both cases, food was exported out of the country while the people starved.
I read somewhere that Mao’s family was considered well off for peasants because they could afford eggs a few times a year. I have no idea if there’s any truth to that.
What about what about what about
the GLF was economic policy made in response to withdrawal of soviet technological and financial aid during the sino-soviet split, one of the primary motivating factors of which being soviet insistence on china essentially allowing the soviets to recolonize the port of dalian to build a naval base from which to deploy its pacific fleet.
on top of being under sanctions from the west, the sino-soviet split further deprived china of markets with which to support its all-important capital intensive industries and so china was forced to resort to agricultural export as a method of making up the shortfall. collectivization was also pursued simultaneously to pool domestic capital for internal consumption, but due to various geographical, technical and political considerations, internal consumption was not sufficiently stimulated to support manufacturing, and so agricultural export became the primary way to finance china’s continued industrialization. most accounts that are not hysterically anti-communist (including liberal darling amartya sen) of the period around the 1958 famine have records of aggregate production being more than sufficient to sustain the overall population, with the primary points of failure being overzealous local governments in highly productive areas, as opposed to popular western conceptions of overbearing central government mandated directives.
all this to say that hitler and the holocaust’s relevance as a point of comparison to mao and the GLF as anything beyond ‘people died when he was in charge’ is laughably superficial and mostly only functions as a thought terminating associative fallacy for juicing your dopamine receptors in order to immunize your brain against more correct opinions.
Source: it came to me in a dream.
I also like how you’re deliberately trying to whitewash Hitler by ignoring all the non-Jewish deaths he was responsible for.
Seriously, you’re trying to argue that Mao “killed” every single person who starved to death in a famine, but Hitler is completely innocent of any of the deaths that occurred in World War 2. It’s a double standard no one would employ unless they were trying to downplay Hitler’s crimes.
That’s how it works in a dictatorship right? The fish stinks from the head.
To address your disingenuous bad-faith argument, counting non-Jews you have 11 or so million total dead in the Holocaust, we are still nowhere near it. Fuck Hitler, fuck Stalin, fuck Mao, the CCP, and fuck the US federal government.
Meanwhile in the real world https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331212/
louder, for everyone in the back.
:mao-wave:
Fascism did this, not Hitler alone. Fascism and Capitalist Imperialism (western as well) started a world war that killed nearly 100 million people in WW2. Mao did not kill anywhere near that much, it’s reactionary nonsense. China experienced the greatest increase in life expectancy in history under Mao
It’s funny how you clowns keep pretending that the only deaths Hitler caused were the ones that specifically happened in the death camps, as if he didn’t literally start WWII. And meanwhile you insist that every single stubbed toe and premature ejaculation that ever happened in a socialist country should be added to the “victims of communism” death toll.
The double standard is baffling.
Removed by mod
you should feel embarrassed
clown ass can’t even spell “deez”
I never feel embarrassed around statists
What a knee-slapper
You are gonna make me do a sectarianism
life is hard for you NAFO trolls now that you’re off reddit
Holocaust apologism and anti-communism on my hexbear?
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi!!!111”
Welcome to federation, hope you enjoy what will surely be a very brief stay!
People who think any communist is worse than Hitler is a nazi apologist and anti-communist by definition
Anyone who engages in Holocaust denial is indeed a Nazi.
You radiate angry 60 year old energy, if you are not in fact 60 years old you should see a doctor
The fastest and easiest way of getting people to stop calling you a nazi is to stop doing nazi things.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
You’re doing holocaust denial right now. Nazi propaganda written by uniform wearing German nazis during nazi Germany. Know better do better.
Spoken like true fascists.
I am once again asking liberals to learn that fascism doesn’t just mean “something I don’t like”
Scanning Umberto Eco’s 14 points, China ticks most of them.
It’s certainly not communist else they would be redistributing the wealth of the billionaires, not welcoming them into the ruling party.
No it doesn’t, not unless you’re deliberately distorting fact to make it fit
Hey look who wants to have an opinion without doing investigation. Is it any surprise they’re only able to speak nonsense?
I need to investigate whether billionaires exist in China?
Cancel culture is the real fascism
Cancel culture is just changing the channel when there’s someone on your TV screen that you don’t like.
You want go clockwork orange and strap people down, tape their eyes open and force them to watch the things you want them to watch? Because that would ensure the freedom of the people on TV to say whatever they want, right? The freedom of Hollywood assholes are more important that our freedom to change the channel, amirite?
What the fuck are you even talking about with Hollywood and television? Are you on a script? Bitch, you’re the one complaining about cancel culture. You’re the one equating being made fun of for having stupid reactionary opinions to literal torture. Can you please put in the absolute bare minimum of effort when you speak to at least remember the topic of fucking discussion??
I haven’t been so befuddled by a completely deranged and incoherent reply since I last posted on
. Buddy I do not miss dealing with dipshits like you.
Just illustrating the point of how stupid the cancel culture is. If you’re not someone in TV, why would you give a shit about it?
Is this weak shit really the best lemmy has to offer?
Try harder, libs.
ATTENTION
Get lost,
https://mronline.org/2019/01/15/britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/
capitalism kills more people than whatever you think the worst of communism is.
“More Indians died from british colonialism than have ever existed” is not a great argument
Removed by mod
I never said they didn’t
Let’s see that hog, chud
Hog out or log out, dronie
My dude calls people statists but then also cites death tolls spouted by the US State department on Mao’s casualties is a level of mental gymnastics that may finally dethrone the Maga morons.
I’m sure there’s some explanation for how Mao killed 100,000,000 people but somehow the population of China went up and the life expectancy doubled under him. It can’t be because the US stat dept. exaggerated the deaths by an exponent tho.
这个老外真过瘾，哈哈
we need a victims of capitalism death toll that counts people who weren’t born in the total.
For just the British Empire in India, similar excess death accounting leads to a death toll of 1.8 billion (and $45 trillion stolen): https://mronline.org/2019/01/15/britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/
China is fascist now, they can go on calling themselves communist in a vain attempt to have something resembling legitimacy. But any fool knows that when the ruling party is full of billionaires, that’s no communist system.
They Chinese people are a great people and deserve a better government than the fascist regime lead by Winnie Xi Pooh.
Didnt take long for the nafo chud to bust out the racism, did it?
How is it racism to say Chinese people are great people?
It’s just their government sucks. They deserve better.
I’m excited to hear you explain how comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes isn’t racist
Because it’s not saying Chinese people look like Winnie the Pooh. It’s only Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh. Do you understand the distinction between insulting an ethnicity and insulting an individual?
And you must’ve been living under a rock (or behind a firewall in an authoritarian country) if you’ve never heard of Xi being compared to Winnie the Pooh. I hear he’s sensitive about it, and it’s banned to make such statements in China. But since I’m not in China and Xi is a piece of shit, this incentivizes me to insult that shithead in ways that hurts his fragile little ego.
Oh bother!
Xi is Chinese you dipshit, you are comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes. Please, continue.
I didn’t come up with it, Chinese people made the memes on this one. At least until they were censored.
Are you saying Chinese people racist for saying Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie-the-Pooh#Comparison_to_Xi_Jinping
The Chinese people chose and support their government, knock off the white saviour act.
I know we are a great people. I am Chinese.
You have it wrong. The Communist Party isnt producing billionaires or getting rich through corruption (at least not in the recent decade of anti corruption). Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
China is the only country that actually punishes billionaires for their crimes instead of giving them a slap on the wrist, house arrest or just straight up not punishing them. China executes billionaires when they commit a crime. Liu Han ordered a Mafia hit on a villager who protested one of his illegal real estate expansions, as well as a business rival. He was executed for murder. China is the only country in the world that would sentence someone worth $40 billion, let alone to death, let alone not given a presidential pardon. Jack Ma regularly oversteps and gets punished by the CPC.
The only billionaire the west has executed is Jeff Epstein (for entirely the wrong reasons). China’s executed 14+ in the last decade.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight. The party responsible for improving the lives for 1.4 billion people actually isn’t disliked in China. The Chinese are not without grievances with the government but literally no other political system in the world has matched Chinese progress over the last 70 years. The average Chinese person isn’t unaware of western Liberal democracy, it simply isn’t appealing. A system that’s basically a popularity contest that elects senile old men, cowboy actors and reality TV stars that have no business being statesmen is actually not a good system. Having lifetime appointed judges to interpret the words of long dead slave owners is not a good system. Having a leadership spill and a change of prime minister every year is not a good system. We can improve on freedom of expression, sure, but the Chinese people aren’t sheep who need to be liberated. Neoliberalism is the failure in the world, not the Chinese model.
Yeah that’s how it works in a fascist system. The wealthy join the ruling party and gain connections to other wealthy people so they can all become wealthier.
The existence of billionaires in China indicates that China is not communist. If it were communist the wealth of the billionaires would be seized and redistributed to the people. China is a country where billionaires are legal and labour unions are illegal.
And your obsession with executions is indicative devaluing life. And it’s interesting that you buy into the conspiracy that Epstein was killed to silence him but haven’t considered the possibility that executions happen in China for the same reason.
Then why isn’t there an election? Why aren’t opposition parties allowed in China? If the CCP would easily win an election, why not have them?
It’s because China is fascist. I think you’re confusing fascism with corporatism. They’re not at all the same. in fascism there’s a hierachy and corporations benefit by falling in line with the hierarchy. Winnie Xi Pooh (who shouldn’t even be leader, but pesky rules bout term limits don’t apply to autocrats) is at the top. Questioning his authority gets you executed. The leadership of China is most certainly misogynistic. The propaganda in China is all about century of humiliation kind of things. China is anti-democracy. These are all the properties of a fascist system.
And yeah fascists will lie about being left wing. See “National Socialism”.
Billionaires exist as a necessary evil, they’re not deities like they are to the west like Gates or Bezos, or a pillar of power like Russian oligarchs. China may not be Marxist as it is, but to completely cut away from the rest of the globe would be suicide. Market socialism relies on being a necessary part of the global economy, and China being able to manufacture in it’s current state while being able to raise the conditions of the proletariat makes it either the worst socialist state or the best capitalist state. Neither is worth of the vitriol it has received. If they must exist, better they exist for the benefit of the people rather than own media companies that push right wing agenda.
The fixation with executions comes from the accusation that billionaires are in charge. It they truly were, they wouldn’t be subject to the same laws as the common folk, and yet herr they are. Unlike Russia or the west, they are held accountable for their actions to a higher degree. All else equal, the CPC treats billionaires worse than any other form of government, and that’s not a bad thing.
For your second point re: elections: Why? The US doesn’t even have free elections, an electoral college overrules pupular vote, nor does the UK, the king and house of Lords aren’t subject to democracy. The Soviets had a free election in 91, voted to remain socialist,nand it was hijacked by the west. Allende was democratically elected and the west supported the usurper. An election while liberalism exists is just inviting interference. Taiwan didn’t have elections for 4 decades and were still beloved by liberalss. The house of Saud doesn’t have elections, did 9/11 and is a close US ally.
If the outcome is obvious, why waste time and resources to indulge western sensibilities, as if bourgeoisie democracy is a human norm, when you can skip that step and move on with increasing society? If it just leads to a Chinese Jan 6th, or worse, why would that possibly be on the table? The CPC would win and somehow the losers would obtain US military grade weapons and seize power. And even if there were no interference and the CPC won anyway, guess what? Every paper in the west would claim it was rigged.
Ren Zhengfei, the CEO of Huawei, has had people arrested and thrown into a dungeon. Billionaires here don’t have that level of power.
You keep imagining yourself as some communist revolutionary, but you’re just another useful idiot that’s been fooled by fascist propaganda.
You should know that fascists are liars and will even label themselves as “communist” if it furthers their goals of acquiring power.
After the ruling party of China did the Tiananmen Square massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre) and got away with it, they shifted to being fascist thugs whose only goal was to maintain and expand their power.
If you’re gonna support fascist thugs, at least be honest about who they are. You look really silly otherwise.
Source? Zhengfei couldn’t even keep his own daughter out of prison. Xi has been the one to crack down on billionaires (part of why a lot of my family like him better than Hu) so if it happened ages ago, I don’t remember. Even so, he’s less wealthy than Jack Ma, who is subject to the CPC’s rules, not vice versa.
All I know is the CPC has done more for the working class, lifted more workers out of poverty than any of the government’s that have earned your respect.
If all they wanted to do post 1989 was to maintain and expand power why the fuck haven’t they? Mongolia is right there, the Qing annexed it, the ROC annexed it, but the PRC can’t? Why forgive loans for Africa?
Why exempt Tibetans and Uyghurs and Mongolians from the One Child Policy? What kind of fascism does population control on the Han majority but not the minorities in their country?
If the goal was to acquire power, there are dozens of regimes that have done a better job at seizing absolute power, but instead the CPC open up more? The Juche government of the DPRK has absolute power, why didn’t China cloister itself from the world like pre Deng? Or start proxy wars in foreign countries to push nationalist jingoism?
I support my countrymen, no fascist thugs. If you’ve ever been to China you’d know it’s not some Orwellian nightmare state. Listening to the media’s portrayal of China when they lie or twist the truth on just about anything else is the brain worm talking. China’s fascist like Saddam has WMDs.
Think about where you’ve gotten your conception of China from and question whether or not they’re biased. You’re talking to someone with first hand experience in China.
I think you make some excellent points and I was glad to read much of what you wrote. If you don’t mind, I am curious about how concerned you are about the points raised above regarding women in positions of power and Xi’s unprecedented (to my knowledge) third term?
where do you even get this nonsense from?
Idk how to tell you this, but the CPC and the Chinese state have like 90% approval from the Chinese people according to western academic sources beloved by libs.
NAFO fascist
Damn, you figured out that I’m part of a super secret intelligence agency.
Now I’ll have to go to the safehouse, get plastic surgery to change my appearance, dye my hair, burn off my finger prints, get new passports.
Again! How does this keep happening?
ERROR! Does not compute.
Please submit pictures of your penis to /c/chapotraphouse to proceed.
I’m sorry my camera doesn’t have a panoramic mode.
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also, ew, nafo
Can you please for the sake of our understanding, give your definition of the word ‘fascism’?
Authoritarian and anti-democracy, characterized by misogyny, propaganda about past grievances.
China ticks all the boxes. It’s definitely not communist anymore because billionaires exist there.
What a useless definition. It doesn’t even consider the class character of fascism.
Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.
China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about “judeo-bolshevism” are not. The term “propaganda” here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be “propaganda about past grievances” to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense
If you’re living in a place where they will drive over you with a tank if you protest the rulers, you’re living in an authoritarian state. This isn’t exacltly a subtle thing.
I’m not talking about a few weird comments here and there. I’m talking about the ruling class in China raping women and getting away with it because it’s considered ok for the rulers to rape women in their society. Because it’s a fascist society. Communism is supposed to espouse equality between men and women. But China isn’t communist anymore.
“Century of humiliation! We must allow strongman Xi to rule over us for as long he wants to fight back against the westerners trying to humiliate us!”
This is standard fascist propaganda, fear of outsiders, citing past grievances as a reason for needing a strongman ruler.
In reality it’s the CCP is humiliating the Chinese people. It’s a garbage government. The people of China deserve better.
“The people of China deserve better. Good thing they have me to decide for them”
You either made up stuff, or never really addressed my points, so I am going to have to refer you to this insightful guide.
Every human on the planet deserves better than living under a fascist regime. Chinese people included.
Supporting the CCP is supporting fascism. Sorry if that breaks immersion on your little communist revolutionary LARPing sessions.
Wow they ran someone over with a tank!? When did that happen? Poor guy!
More than one person. Thousands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
If you’re in China, that link may not work for you.
So it begins. The great Redditification of our time
Yeah! How dare they - checks notes - fly in international airspace.
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so brave
IDK dude that’s a lot of sex
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Fuck the USA.