• 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬@lemmy.ml
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    1 month ago

    Sad to see they only use MS GitHub instead of selfhosting something like GitLab. Just another vendor lock-in.

    • shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol
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      1 month ago

      We will continue to use Bugzilla, moz-phab, Phabricator, and Lando.

      Although we’ll be hosting the repository on GitHub, our contribution workflow will remain unchanged and we will not be accepting Pull Requests at this time.

      The cool thing about distributed version control is that it’s distributed. It sounds like GitHub will just be a public remote, rather than the place where active development happens.

    • Rednax@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Since they will not use Github for Pull Requests, bug tracking, or any other bonus feature on top of git, I have to disagree. It would be super easy to change the host of their git repo.

      • cmhe@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Depends a bit on what the default cloning url will be. If the domain is in control of mozilla, which forwards it to github, then fine, if most people start using the github url, then it is still a vendor lock in, because many people and projects will use it, and that is not so easy to move away.

        Update: To the people down-voting my comment, I would love to hear why you either disagree with me, or find that my that my contribution to this discussion is worthless.

        The upstream URL of a project or repo is important, because it will be used in other projects, like in build scripts for fetching the sources. If a projects changes that URL in the future, and the old URL is no longer available/functional, all those scripts need to be changed and the old versions of these scripts do not work anymore out of the box.

        If the project owns the URL, then can add redirect rules, that might help alleviate some of these issues. I don’t think github allows projects that move away from it to do that. So this is a sort of vendor lock-in. The project needs to maintain the repo on github, because they want to break the internet as little as possible.

      • 4am@lemm.ee
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        1 month ago

        Gitlab can be self-hosted. GitHub is a cloud-only service.

        So they could do git.mozilla.com and it would be their own instance of git, on their own hardware (or, probably, from their own AWS account). They control it entirely.

      • 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        It absolutely is. Yes. You can run and maintain it on an own server and it is open core (yeah 😥) using the MIT license - unlike GitHub where you have to rely 100% on the goodwill of Microsoft and everything is closed and locked behind a TOS.

        • Lemzlez@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          So why not use forejo, which is completely open source?

          If your criticism is MS pulling the plug, then Gitlab pulling a Redis/Hashicorp move and re-licensing their core should also be a concern

          • 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬@lemmy.ml
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            1 month ago

            So why not use forejo, which is completely open source?

            Absolutely! I’d always go the Forgejo route!

            The thing is: I don’t see Firefox being hosted with Forgejo. The code base and amount of data might be way too massive. I see Forgejo as a forge for smaller projects.

      • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        Although we’ll be hosting the repository on GitHub, our contribution workflow will remain unchanged and we will not be accepting Pull Requests at this time

  • fossphi@lemm.ee
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    1 month ago

    Damn. Wow, it seems like Mozilla is getting more fired up lately. They are also actively communicating (recent couple of AMAs) and listening to their users (through Mozilla connect and working on much requested features)!

    • boredsquirrel@slrpnk.net
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      1 month ago

      They plan on doing that change since over a year lol

      And their build docs are incredibly confusing, I have no idea how distro packagers can do this.

      I built Firefox from source for a while, and it just broke after a while.

  • Deebster@programming.dev
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    1 month ago

    So they’re switching from using both Mercurial and Git to just Git… How did they end up using both? Was it just that each had its supporters so they just compromised and made everyone use both?

      • pedroapero@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        This is very detailed 😆 I would have appreciated going for Codeberg too. This is not so bad as used just for hosting the repo, a future migration away from GH would be a breeze.

  • Asudox@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    They could have self hosted a Forgejo instance but they really went with MS GitHub. Kind of sad.

  • fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com
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    1 month ago

    I just wish they’d put their mobile releases on a standard release page. I can’t use Obtainium with their current GitHub mirror because it’s always out of date from the Play Store.

  • mke@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Anyone know if Mozilla ever made a statement on the state of MS’s LLM training on Github data? I’m curious if they don’t care about having Firefox be part of the dataset or if they just think the benefits of the platform outweigh that.

      • mke@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Thought I’d forgotten 'bout this comment, didn’tcha? Sorry to say, I’m very good at restarting old discussions instead of sleeping on time.

        I tried looking into this again and I’m not sure. Please do comment if you have any insight on this.

        I trimmed down the fat and replaced it with “…”, but feel free to open the GH terms of use and read the cited sections yourself.

        Wall of terms

        A. Definitions

        The “Service” refers to the applications, software, products, and services provided by GitHub, including any Beta Previews.

        Pretty sure this includes Copilot.

        “Content” refers to content featured or displayed through the Website, including without limitation code …

        D. User-Generated Content, 3. Ownership of Content, Right to Post, and License Grants

        Because you retain ownership of and responsibility for Your Content, we need you to grant us … legal permissions, listed in Sections D.4 — D.7. These license grants apply to Your Content. … You understand that you will not receive any payment for any of the rights granted … The licenses you grant to us will end when you remove Your Content from our servers, unless other Users have forked it.

        (emphasis mine)

        1. License Grant to Us

        … You grant us … right to store, archive, parse, and display Your Content, and make incidental copies, as necessary to provide the Service, including improving the Service over time. This license includes the right to do things like … analyze it on our servers …

        (emphasis mine)

        1. Moral Rights

        You retain all moral rights to Your Content that you upload, publish, or submit to any part of the Service, including the rights of integrity and attribution. However, you waive these rights and agree not to assert them against us, to enable us to reasonably exercise the rights granted in Section D.4, but not otherwise.

        To the extent this agreement is not enforceable by applicable law, you grant GitHub the rights we need to use Your Content without attribution and to make reasonable adaptations of Your Content as necessary to render the Website and provide the Service.

        (emphasis mine)

        While there is this option on the GH settings for Copilot:

        • Allow GitHub to use my code snippets from the code editor for product improvements

        …I find it entirely unclear what, precisely, is being disallowed when this is unchecked. Surrounding text and links are unhelpful.

        Also, if I understand the relevant law properly here, many AI companies are likely betting on training being fair use. Your rights, your power to dictate terms in a LICENSE, are thus irrelevant if fair use applies. I lack the background to tell how the COPIED Act, were it to pass, would change this in regard to code, if at all.

        Finally, there’s that question… do you actually trust companies to follow the rules in good faith?

    • slazer2au@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Do they? Git isn’t tied to GitHub. There is gitlab, Gitea, and forgejo that do the same thing.

      • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        In the link, it says:

        Although we’ll be hosting the repository on GitHub, our contribution workflow will remain unchanged and we will not be accepting Pull Requests at this time