• Reef@lemmy.caOP
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    1 month ago

    Louis-Dreyfus’ interview with Kara Swisher followed her profile in The New York Times from earlier this month in which she made headlines for saying it’s a “red flag” when comedians complain about political correctness. While she never mentioned her “Seinfeld” co-star Jerry Seinfeld by name, her interview was published soon after he went viral for blaming the “extreme left and P.C. culture” for killing TV comedy because “people [are now] worrying so much about offending other people.”

    “To have an antenna about sensitivities is not a bad thing,” Louis-Dreyfus told The Times. “It doesn’t mean that all comedy goes out the window as a result. When I hear people starting to complain about political correctness — and I understand why people might push back on it — but to me that’s a red flag, because it sometimes means something else.”

    • Pronell@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      And for Seinfeld, of all people, to say something that is so… dumb.

      It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia is essentially Seinfeld on crack. You have a cast of bad people with little redeeming qualities who are actively becoming worse people. And it’s a massive hit that’s been running longer than Seinfeld’s own show.

      In addition, what the hell, man? You are the cleanest, most white bread standup I’ve ever seen. I paid to see you do a ten minute bit on raisins that killed. You do not DO edgy comedy, so shut the fuck up.

      • ours@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        And let’s not forget about the guy who made the Seinfeld show what it was had an amazing run with his own show Curb your enthusiasm.

        Not quite as spicy as Always Sunny but certainly had more punch that Seinfeld.

        The common thread is it is hilarious to make the terrible people the butts of the jokes, not the minorities. It also helps running with some aspects as a joke (Mack’s closeted gay in Sunny) and having them pay out emotionaly.

        Being gay is not the joke like before “PC”, the repression of it, the forced toxic masculinity is. But I guess that’s a bit harder than kicking down so some conservative comedies are just crying they can’t just do it like before.

        Since when was comedy, especially edgy comedy, about doing the same thing as before? What happened to pushing the envelope?

        Who wants the hear the same tired old jokes? Innovate or make space for new voices.

  • magic_lobster_party@kbin.run
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    1 month ago

    If you think PC culture is hindering your ability to make jokes, maybe you aren’t that much of a comedy genius

  • morgunkorn
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    1 month ago

    Yeah what’s the deal with not being allowed to drop the N word anymore, humor is dead! /s

  • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 month ago

    Conan O’Brien had an interview I think with Taylor Tomlinson where they talked about this topic.

    Their conclusion was that comics that complain about it being harder to do comedy are just lazy.

    It’s always been hard. Even if it’s true that there are less topics that you can touch, it means that you have to dig deeper in the well you can. It’s your job as a comic to do that hard work, not the audience’s job to laugh at your shit joke.

    Conan has been doing comedy his whole life and talks about jokes that do great one night and jokes that bomb the next. Comics need to learn to read the room and adjust their jokes accordingly.

    • psivchaz@reddthat.com
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      1 month ago

      I agree but I do sympathize with one part of it. Things that were widely considered funny a few years ago are not today. I do think it’s unfair to hold people in the past to the standards of today, but people love digging up old footage and bludgeoning people with it.

      If a comic makes a joke and it bombs, maybe it’s not funny. Maybe they used it with the wrong audience. Reading the culture and the room and choosing wisely is part of the job, like you say. But if it bombs 5 years later on Twitter, maybe it should have just been left in the past with the context it belonged in and not dug up and resurrected for clicks.

      • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        Plenty of people had the courage to call out injustice before it was popular. Mark Twain is a famous counterexample to “everyone was racist in the 1800s.” Being an ignorant sheep is a valid defense for bigotry, but it’s the lowest possible form of defense.

        • psivchaz@reddthat.com
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          1 month ago

          I’m not saying, “Hey, it’s fine” I’m saying that people and cultures change, and should be allowed to change. Never before have people been so unable to escape their past. Yeah, occasionally you get a Bernie Sanders who seems to nail it right off. But most people have some skeletons or some shit they’d be embarrassed about if it were dug up and went viral.

          When you dig up the past and hit people with it, you discourage progress. People are more likely to dig in their heels, knowing that the opinions they have today they’ll have to answer for tomorrow.

          • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            I would argue that the axiom “consider the feelings of others” is pretty universal and timeless. Philosopher Simone de Beauvoir coined the imperative “do that which maximizes freedom for others” in 1947. Kant debuted his categorical imperative in 1785. These are not new ideas. You are acting like this is some arbitrary ethic which changes at random, when in reality the ideas of “don’t be a dick” and “make society inclusive” is at minimum, centuries old.

            At minimum, everyone always has the out of “I was wrong and now I understand.” It is here that people like Seinfeld and Rowling really fuck it up.

            • Swedneck
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              1 month ago

              people really love to forget that the american union army literally fought a war against slavery, The Battle Hymn of the Repbublic was written by an abolishionist and was inspired by John Brown’s Body, a song about a man who was so furiously anti-slavery that he refused an insanity plea because that would lessen his anti-slavery message.

              Like man, how many people nowadays are going to war specifically on the grounds of ending injustices like slavery? People of the past were unquestioningly capable of considering the rights of others and recognizing that exploitation do indeed be bad.

  • danc4498@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    I think most of these comedians getting in trouble for being politically incorrect are just not being funny. The biggest sin of Chappelle’s standup, IMO, was that his jokes weren’t funny. Just played out conservative jokes.

    • Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      The best comedians can always pull it off because they know it’s about the focus of the joke. I have no idea who the original writer was, but there was a reddit thread about a cishet comedian who did

      “You know how I know trans women are women? Because when we have sex they don’t finish either”

      I love it. It’s a joke about trans people, but it works because the butt of the joke is the comedian himself… it even affirms trans identity.

    • DrPop@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      It would be one thing if his trans Jokes were at least funny. But they are just mean and kinda weak. If you’re going to offend me at least make me laugh damnit.

    • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      Right, “he saves more than he rapes” is honestly funny, though probably not a joke to tell outside the context of a shock humor show. “Hahahaha at least trans people weren’t slaves hahahahaha” is just not funny.

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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        1 month ago

        It must come to as a shock that some trans people are, in fact, POC. The latest standup was, unfortunately, “old man fails to remain comedically relevant societal changes and goes full-boomer rather than practice self-reflection”. He used to be a good comedian but clearly lost his touch or is phoning it in knowing that right-wingers are likely to shell out ridiculous money for hate.

  • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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    1 month ago

    People who claim humor has died because of PC culture, only know how to be funny at the expense of others.

  • Spacehooks@reddthat.com
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    1 month ago

    As far as stand up, I watched plenty of last comic standing at local events ruining my voice. Comedy is hard. People complaining should retire and let others shine.

  • THCDenton@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Some bits are timeless, most go rancid after a decade or so. Anti woke comics are just as cringy as the sjw ones. If everyone in the audience is cheering and clapping but not laughing, that comic sucks ass. I wanna laugh so hard I puke. Whatever gets me there.

  • Swedneck
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    30 days ago

    Comedians who find it hard to strike home with “offensive” jokes should try the opposite approach for once, those whose jokes center around economic struggles and making fun of terrible people seem to be doing just fine.

  • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    Jokes have a part you believe.

    “Eat the rich” is a gag about class disparity and cannibalism. But it’s only joking about the cannibalism.

    Assholes think ‘you can joke about anything!’ means comedy can never be hateful or hurtful, because they only understand comedy as cruelty you’re not allowed to get mad at. If Dave Chappelle keeps shitting on trans people, onstage, well that’s gotta be fine, because it’s onstage. He’s a comedian. And therefore a nihilist. He doesn’t mean things when he says words! No matter what he also says offstage.

    In reality - you can get away with anything, so long as audiences trust you don’t mean it. This is why people get a free pass to demean their own ingroup. We assume folks aren’t racist about themselves. But with enough context - even that can break. Human beings are fantastic at discerning meaning. So even hilariously clever phrasing can’t stop deeply bigoted stereotypes from piercing the social expectations that make stand-up work, and leave people questioning the bit.

    • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      Tbh “eat the rich” has some pretty uncomfortable historical connotations when it comes to Maoist China. I know survivors of the cultural revolution and they definitely don’t find that shit funny.

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        It is a simplification of a longer concept “When people having nothing more to eat they will eat the rich” which is kinda seperate from the whole Maoist China thing. Also the cultural revolution was a complete fuckup seperate from the original meaning, one is about desperation of the common people the other is another example why vanguardists need to be stabbed before they cause a famine.

        • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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          30 days ago

          Yes I understand that ostensible origin, but the fact remains that cannibalism was used as a weapon for political violence, and saying “eat the rich” absolutely evokes that memory in the people who lived through it. Especially when it used as a political slogan.

  • Lad@reddthat.com
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    30 days ago

    How pathetic is it that certain comedians are mad because the audience won’t laugh at their jokes?