Sen. Bernie Sanders admonished Democrats who have called for President Joe Biden to withdraw from the race against former President Donald Trump.
  • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
    981·
    5 months ago

    I think most Dems, especially those who are highly politically engaged and closely follow election news, are going to vote blue no matter who. So, I think Bernie is preaching to the choir here. I think the Dems who are worried about Biden are worried he doesn’t have enough support among independents, and they feel independents are much less likely to just vote for the Democrat, no matter who it is.

    Now, could just any candidate replace Biden and automatically win back any of the independents he is believed to have lost? I don’t know. A lot of Dems seem to think that just about any other candidate would do better than Biden among independents right now, but I’m not so sure.

      • CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        64·
        5 months ago

        Hillary, much like Trump, is a symptom of what is wrong with the Democrats. “It was her turn” spat in the face of people who were excited about a progressive candidate and made the whole primary a sham.

        She was a terrible candidate. She was a bitter pill that many independents said “enough is enough” and voted third party or not voted at all.

        I am deeply concerned that as the Republicans move more toward fascism, the left are not going to have great candidates. We’re going to get established, wealthy-class friendly candidates who are willing to throw crumbs at the working class. They’ll bitch and moan about how they are losing voters, never looking at themselves, never realizing that we are literally voting to just survive.

        This election will be just like 2020. We aren’t voting for Biden. We’re voting against fascism.

        And I’m personally getting fucking tired of Democrats seeing that as a win.

        • lad@programming.devEnglish
          2·
          5 months ago

          I am deeply concerned that as the Republicans move more toward fascism, the left are not going to have great candidates

          Well, the Republicans Democrats will have an option of being “less fascist party” by then. I feel like the future is not too bright, somehow

          Edit: mixed the opposites somehow 🫠

      • blindbunny@lemmy.mlEnglish
        456·
        5 months ago

        What an ungrateful cunt. I don’t want to be in hell with that removed.

      • JimVanDeventer@lemmy.world
        4·
        5 months ago

        Hillary “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman” Clinton. Yeah. Keep on satisfying those poor, misguided progressives.

    • Throw_away_migrator@lemmy.world
      22·
      5 months ago

      I think the other concern is voter turnout/enthusiasm. The last presidential election had extremely high turnout. Even if voters (in swing states) don’t switch candidates but opt to stay home instead that could translate into a significant electoral problem too.

      • Habahnow@sh.itjust.works
        2·
        5 months ago

        You do have a point that turn out Is important, but a potential replacement candidate isn’t guaranteed to increase turn out, they could be worse. And they would only have 4 months to try to fix things, which isn’t a lot of time.

        • JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl
          1·
          5 months ago

          Turnout is literally everything. It is literally more turnout = Democrat win literally every single election in america. Low turnout in 2016 still resulted in trump losing the popular vote. America’s voting system is messed up, but then so is UK’s parliamentary first past the post system and Belgium’s 6 governments.

    • fine_sandy_bottom
      5·
      5 months ago

      I think you might be missing the point though.

      Those highly politically engaged Dem voters who will vote blue no matter who are bickering about whether Biden is the right choice, and the swing voters are paying attention.

      To an undecided voter, it doesn’t inspire much confident to see that Biden’s own supporters don’t think he can do the job.

      The bickering amongst those who will vote blue anyway is costing the votes from the undecideds that Biden so desperately needs.

  • grrgyle@slrpnk.net
    511·
    5 months ago

    This Bernie guy seems pretty energetic and popular… why not put him on the ballot?

    • iAvicenna@lemmy.world
      5·
      5 months ago

      Let’s see, just to name a few: openly against civil gun ownership, openly against expensive private healthcare, openly against zionism and Israel’s occupation of Gaza. This pisses off a lot of very powerful people, so probably not gonna happen

  • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
    5010·
    5 months ago

    Or stop bickering and replace him ASAP.

    But really, I don’t think this is bickering. I think it’s an intentionally slow drip of news to get people more receptive to the idea of replacing him with Kamala, so that it’s not a bomb dropping all of a sudden, which would likely freak out a bunch of voters and cause them to lose votes. Boil the frog slowly and there’s less of a splash.

    • CleoTheWizard@lemmy.worldEnglish
      71·
      5 months ago

      Well honestly it’s going to be a splash either way and the sooner they replace him, the better. Kamala is going to need more time to cook with and the sooner she can get out there, the sooner she can challenge Trump to a debate and flip this country around.

  • cabron_offsets@lemmy.world
    5212·
    5 months ago

    Wishful thinking from Bernie. For fucks sake:

    politics is showmanship, not an intellectual endeavor.

    I fucking hate that, but it is the immutable truth.

    You NEED a charismatic leader to win. Biden needs to fuck off.

    I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth. But Biden’s a goner.

    • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
      132·
      5 months ago

      Exactly. I cannot fucking believe he can say with a straight face that it’s not an entertainment contest. It’s the biggest American Idol contest there is and sure as shit isn’t a job interview.

    • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
      91·
      5 months ago

      It seems like the establishment is hell bent on making the choice Biden or Harris and Harris might be the only person less likely to win.

    • FaceDeer@fedia.io
      126·
      5 months ago

      I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth.

      And so you’re going to vote for Biden, yes?

    • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
      415·
      5 months ago

      I will ALWAYS cast my vote to most effectively suppress the republican traitor filth. But Biden’s a goner.

      If by goner, you mean you’re not voting for him- then this is contradictory.

        • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
          26·
          5 months ago

          That’s good to see. Thank you! Hopefully we can have some good things happen by next election and get someone better by then.

          • cabron_offsets@lemmy.world
            14·
            5 months ago

            I can’t consider voting for traitors. So repubs are off the table. I will always vote against them. They’re worthless filth.

            • Deceptichum@quokk.auEnglish
              526·
              5 months ago

              Right but it wasn’t that long ago that D was the hardcore racist party.

              To blindly support a party no matter what is not something anyone should ever do or proclaim.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                131·
                5 months ago

                I think it’s pretty obvious that if the Democratic Party changed that drastically, the person you replied to would change their opinion. They are saying that because, at present, Republicans are far, far more dangerous.

                Also, Democrats have been championing civil rights since JFK. Saying 1960 was not that long ago is silly. Suffering that 1866, which is when the poster you posted was made, is not that long ago when it comes to American politics is not even rational.

                • Deceptichum@quokk.auEnglish
                  417·
                  5 months ago

                  So why don’t people say that instead of such extremist language like “no matter what”?

                  Words matter. Blindly supporting or pretending you will blindly support a shit party because the other is worse is in no way shape or form a good thing.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            141·
            5 months ago

            Are you making the ludicrous suggestion that the Democratic Party of 1866 is the same as the one today?

            • Deceptichum@quokk.auEnglish
              312·
              5 months ago

              No, I’m making the suggestion that D can and has changed in the past and that supporting them blindly forever is not wise.

              Biden was fighting for segregation at the end of the day. This isn’t 1866 history, the Southern Strategy happened in the 1960s

          • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
            4·
            5 months ago

            Imagine digging back 158 years to find an example of a Democrat being racist, and thinking you have a point.

    • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
      935·
      5 months ago

      Incorrect.

      You are the reason conservatives win elections, because you tell Democrats not to vote for Gore because he’s boring or Hillary because she’s ill, or Biden because he’s old.

      None of these irrelevant insults are stopping these people from doing their job.

      • cabron_offsets@lemmy.world
        341·
        5 months ago

        Fuck off. I voted Gore and Hillary. You’re not helping the situation by burying your head in the sand.

        • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
          83·
          5 months ago

          Don’t worry. They’re obviously gaslighting you. You undermined their entire argument and yet, they persist. How odd.

        • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
          425·
          5 months ago

          Loudly proclaiming a specific, unpopular fact is the opposite of burying my head in the sand.

          You’re upset because you’ve been called out for burying your head in the sand.

          The bandwagon is easy and comfortable and wrong here.

          Bernie is right.

            • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
              511·
              5 months ago

              Bernie is right, saying the same thing I’ve been saying for months.

              I’m glad you focused on me helping people, that’s exactly what’s happening here.

              Bullying works on a lot of people, but it sure slides off my back.

              Vote Biden, a surprisingly progressive president that’s enacted great policies that have helped hundreds of millions of people.

              Don’t worry about these conservative trolls, they’re afraid of their dwindling power.

              Thanks, you accurate username you, I appreciate it!

  • maniii@lemmy.worldEnglish
    303·
    5 months ago

    Drumpf is a living survivor martyr. Nothing is now gonna hold anything back. Every thing is now going to hit the fan.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
      10·
      5 months ago

      Honestly second thing I thought of when I saw it. First was that it was staged.

  • orcrist@lemm.ee
    281·
    5 months ago

    We saw mass media and the Dems pull the same thing in 2004. Decide a candidate is unelectable, before the election, and then make it happen. What happened to letting the voters decide? What happened to democracy? Meh.

    It was sick then, and it is sick now. If the man is too old, OK, but we all knew his age a year ago. To pretend to be surprised and concerned now is laughable.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      162·
      5 months ago

      What happened to letting the voters decide?

      “Everyone needs to get out and vote!”

      voters start bickering over who to vote for

      “NOT LIKE THAT!”

      If the man is too old, OK, but we all knew his age a year ago.

      Which is why its crazy he didn’t have any kind of primary contender. Hell, its crazy he didn’t just wrap this at one term and pass the torch to any of a number of popular and highly competent governors.

      • orcrist@lemm.ee
        3·
        5 months ago

        I totally agree with you. My speculation is that people in power in the DNC didn’t want to push for a younger candidate because then that candidate would immediately seize a lot of power. Perhaps they were disagreeing on who would be the best person, and they figured that some old man is low risk because he’s going to retire soon enough anyway. But that’s all blind speculation. A lot of what the DNC does happens behind closed doors.

    • shiroininja@lemmy.world
      4011·
      5 months ago

      I have an unpopular opinion. Swapping candidates a couple months from election will look really disorganized and even weaker than keeping him. Especially to swing voters. And it’ll be rushed. I doubt the replacement will be well known, so you expect me to get to know, learn who they are and develop a platform in a couple months? I think they’d lose too.

      It’s too late. The spineless centrists controlling the party waffled too long and I bet they cost the election again. Just like in 2016. I’m really disappointed in the Democratic Party and how it’s condensed it’s power more towards the top and quite frankly, am tired of their muted response to things like project 2025 until months before the election. It’s been around since. Before trump was elected, but without a catchy name. I passed around the leaked documents on it in 2017.

      I’m just reminded of ‘Baby I’m an Anarchist’ by Against me! Lately. I’m not an Anarchist, but I feel the lyrics about the my fellow spineless liberals

      • dhork@lemmy.worldEnglish
        132·
        5 months ago

        Swapping candidates would look really, really bad… unless he comes up and says “I had a talk with my doctor, he says I’ve developed a chronic condition that I didn’t know about past year. I can’t do it anymore, but here, vote for my VP, who you all already voted for once anyway, and would take over anyway if this thing kills me”.

        He can leave out that the chronic condition is just notgonnawinatall, and his doctor is also his pollster.

      • catloaf@lemm.eeEnglish
        32·
        5 months ago

        I think that’s why they’re floating it now. They’re getting people primed to accept someone as the replacement that they already recognize. (My money is on Kamala Harris.)

      • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
        88·
        5 months ago

        Other countries have their entire election cycles in a few months. It’s a joke to think it’s too late for Biden to drop out.

    • Thteven@lemmy.world
      202·
      5 months ago

      He understands the two party system we’re left with. If we don’t back the democratic candidate we will be fucked by the 30% of the population that wants Cheeto Messiah in the white house.

    • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1410·
      5 months ago

      Yep. But let’s explore this further under the hood.

      • Nobody of the progressive caucus can break ranks lest that be used against the party as a wedge-drive issue by operatives later, whether Biden stays in or not.

      • Bernie was essentially promised a high level committee position if he traded falling in line with Biden. This his returning of the favor.

      • Calls for Biden to step down will be completely ineffective from the progressive coalition anyway. Biden is a centrist and doesn’t hold much respect for them. The people who matter are the likes of Clyburn and Pelosi.

  • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
    296·
    5 months ago

    A thought I haven’t seen offered much, but could give Biden an ego-soothing role instead of being put out to political pasture - a Harris:Biden ticket.

    She gets to be the energetic go-getter at the front (that the Maga hate-oil salesmen are shrieking about atm) while Biden can play the ‘elder statesman’ role of advice and experience to Kamala instead of running himself. You defuse a lot of the competency/decline arguments against Biden, and gird against one of Harris’s biggest threats - her lack of international experience.

    Kamala is not a political unknown, but Biden is losing/equal right now to Trump with the DNC money & publicity machine working for him the last eight years. I’d argue Harris has a better shot if those efforts are swung her way. I don’t like Harris, but needn’t convince me to vote team blue - it’s the ~9% undecided we need to convince.

    • akakunai@lemmy.ca
      171·
      5 months ago

      I mean, this isn’t an awful idea…

      The real world logistics probably make this more complicated than implied, but I don’t mind the intent.

      • abracaDavid@lemmy.today
        82·
        5 months ago

        It’s not a good idea because Kamala is pretty unpopular.

        She comes off as out of touch and condescending, just like another certain candidate that lost to Trump in 2016.

        • akakunai@lemmy.ca
          2·
          5 months ago

          I agree, she’s not the candidate I’d want leading the dems—far from it. But people are used to voting between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich as their president. Biden is something different, more agreeable than some other candidates the Dems have run. But people are seriously concerned about voting for a man who’s mental acuity is declining rapidly towards senility and very possibly will not live through 2028.

          Plus, I haven’t read too far into it but I’ve heard that only Kamala would be able to use the Biden/Harris campaign war-chest. It’s sad as hell that that is so important, but it is nonetheless.

  • WatDabney@fedia.io
    15·
    5 months ago

    I’m with him 100% on the first bit - at this point, the single most important thing the Dems have to do is stop bickering.

    As for the rest, at this point I don’t even much care. I can see arguments both for and against in both directions - either choice is going to involve some risk but either choice can be made to succeed.

    So the important thing, and really the ONLY important thing, is to pick one and run with it. Stop with the dilly-dallying and the second-guessing and the bitching and moaning and hand-wringing and make a choice and stick with it, so we can focus ALL of our attention on pounding those fucking fascist traitors’ dicks into the dirt.