One thing I noticed, and you can check this for yourself too, is that American media outlets constantly refer to her as ‘Elon Musks transgender daughter’, and it really bothers me it’s not just ‘Elon Musks Daughter.’
So I checked, and the BBC, CTV News (canadian), CBC (also canadian) all just refer to her as his daughter.
I absolutely love that she’s bringing the lumber, but I could really do with news organizations not using that as her identifier. She’s not ‘Elon Musk’s transgender daughter.’ She’s Vivian Jenna Wilson, she doesn’t even consider Elon her father. I’ll let her speak for herself here:
(From her name change):
“I no longer live with or wish to be related to my biological father in any way, shape or form,” she wrote on the petition.
“I would like to emphasize one thing: I am an adult,” she said, according to NBC. “I am 20 years old. I am not a child. My life should be defined by my own choices.”
I hate to say it, but until trans people are normalized in American society, pointing out that his daughter is trans is probably necessary for people to understand why Elon says he lost his son.
It also factors into Elon’s hatred of ‘woke mind virus’. Her transition has become an important event to explain him and their relationship. Sadly we rarely discuss her outside of an Elon context. At least so far.
Is it though? It just legitimizes it as a reason to separate her from other women. Until I see “So-and-So’s cis-gendered hetero daughter” I think we can agree it’s singling them out, not highlighting something in good faith. For example, and this is the BBC’s:
Elon Musk: Billionaire’s daughter cuts ties with her father | BBC
She’s a woman, who from what I can see is emancipated from her father. He’s a sack of shit, she’s voicing that. That’s the story.
He didn’t lose a son because she is transgender. He lost a child because he’s a shitty father. And he thinks he lost a son because he is also a transphobe who refuses to accept her daughter. The why isn’t her gender, the why is Musks transphobia and shitty parenting.
IMO if you want to normalize trans people you should treat them like people and not stick a huge “transgender” sign above them.
If a lazy American just reads that Musk’s daughter disowned him, they’re not going to understand why and they will be less inclined to read on. I’m afraid that’s just how things are.
We’re talking about whether or not it’s dehumanizing to constantly other trans people in a way that doesn’t apply to cis people. You kinda seem like you just want an argument though.
I think a big difference here is that you keep saying that this legitimizes him or his behaviour. That does not seem at all obvious to many of us.
Pointing out these facts provides context for those of us that don’t know. I do not believe it legitimizes anything. If you see it that way, you are probably on the extreme end of the issue ( either side ).
This is not an accusation. I can feel your genuine concern that it legitimizes his statements. I want to reassure you that it does not. The people that will take it as evidence of legitimacy do not need a reason to feel right. So who cares what they think?
It never would have occurred to me that her gender or gender history somehow supported Elon Musk until you started to say so.
I agree it’s not to intentionally target her maliciously, but it is malicious: how does the story change if you just say ‘daughter’? If she was a Catholic convert would it be ‘Elon Musks Transgender Catholic Daughter’? I understand part of his hatred towards her is that she’s transgendered, but we don’t have to allow that. And as I said, other news agencies aren’t (all) doing that.
I do by best to try to refer to her as his ex daughter. Maybe it’s just my own relationship with my own disowning but it’s definitely a valuable distinction imo
Yeah I think by calling her his ex daughter it’s an acknowledgment that the father shaped wound on her is an aching scar not something that’s going to heal nice and fine. A lot of people like to respond to disowning like it’s definitely going to be temporary and everything will be fine again. It does tend to be temporary, but sometimes it isn’t and it’s healthy to deal with it as if it probably won’t be but might be. It’s not comforting to hear it probably will be anyways. And even if the connection is reestablished it’s always going to bear that damage. The baseline level of trust that parents are supposed to have of being your first and most secure source of support and love is gone.
I do not expect Ms. Wilson and Mr. Musk to ever reconcile. His behavior towards her has been atrocious as was his behavior towards her mother. Furthermore Mr. Musk seems to be completely incapable of accepting responsibility for his bad behavior.
I resonate with your sentiment and applaud you bringing it up, but in this case I feel it’s pretty relevant to the story. It’s the trans aspect that caused Musk to say a bunch of shitty stuff about her to begin with. If the story was about her winning the lottery or something else unrelated, I’d be 100% with you.
My point is their legitimizing his reasoning. They’re saying this is the reason he did it. Let him say that. Never let him try to shy away from it, make it so if he’s going to misgender/deadname/etc he’s openly doing it.
Think about it, the story title should go:
“Elon Musks daughter speaks out about her fathers homophobia, bigotry, etc”
Let him try to legitimize it and fail, don’t give him the step up first. Make him look like the lunatic he is for raving about his ‘dead son’ or whatever, let him hang himself with his own rope. She even says:
“I would like to emphasize one thing: I am an adult,” she said, according to NBC. “I am 20 years old. I am not a child. My life should be defined by my own choices.”
She had no choice in this at all, she is who she is, so we need to stop helping make a minor part of her identity her identifying characteristic.
I agree with what you’re saying to a point. As a trans person, the media doesn’t care about us, we’re nothing more than a headline to them. But saying she’s trans doesn’t legitimize anything. The sad truth is that this is the reason he did it. Highlighting the fact that his daughter is trans just shows the hypocrisy of saying you’re all about family values while spewing hateful rhetoric about your own family.
I don’t personally feel it legitimizes it at all, but regardless, journalists should report all the relevant facts, not withhold some to make a point. Her being trans is relevant to the story. If I read a news article on it that didn’t report that, and then I found out later, if probably stop reading that publication because it would have been shown to be withholding facts to make some point.
One thing I noticed, and you can check this for yourself too, is that American media outlets constantly refer to her as ‘Elon Musks transgender daughter’, and it really bothers me it’s not just ‘Elon Musks Daughter.’
So I checked, and the BBC, CTV News (canadian), CBC (also canadian) all just refer to her as his daughter.
I absolutely love that she’s bringing the lumber, but I could really do with news organizations not using that as her identifier. She’s not ‘Elon Musk’s transgender daughter.’ She’s Vivian Jenna Wilson, she doesn’t even consider Elon her father. I’ll let her speak for herself here:
(From her name change):
I hate to say it, but until trans people are normalized in American society, pointing out that his daughter is trans is probably necessary for people to understand why Elon says he lost his son.
You’re not wrong, but I think we all really wish you were.
Sad thing is, clarifying Elon’s hatred by pointing his daughter is trans, gives credence to his take in some folks’ eyes.
The conversation maybe ugly, but it still has to be had.
He thinks the school system did this to his child, and he’s on a mission to stop the woke because of it.
You cant get that across when you just say his daughter.
But you don’t have to get that across in every discussion of her, either - that moves from discussing his vendetta over to defining her by it.
That’s why you read the whole article, not just the headline
It also factors into Elon’s hatred of ‘woke mind virus’. Her transition has become an important event to explain him and their relationship. Sadly we rarely discuss her outside of an Elon context. At least so far.
Is it though? It just legitimizes it as a reason to separate her from other women. Until I see “So-and-So’s cis-gendered hetero daughter” I think we can agree it’s singling them out, not highlighting something in good faith. For example, and this is the BBC’s:
She’s a woman, who from what I can see is emancipated from her father. He’s a sack of shit, she’s voicing that. That’s the story.
That doesn’t explain why. And the why here is important. Essential.
He didn’t lose a son because she is transgender. He lost a child because he’s a shitty father. And he thinks he lost a son because he is also a transphobe who refuses to accept her daughter. The why isn’t her gender, the why is Musks transphobia and shitty parenting.
IMO if you want to normalize trans people you should treat them like people and not stick a huge “transgender” sign above them.
If a lazy American just reads that Musk’s daughter disowned him, they’re not going to understand why and they will be less inclined to read on. I’m afraid that’s just how things are.
Headlines don’t typically contain the entire context. You have to actually read the article for the why.
And Americans often don’t read past the headlines.
That’s not what we’re talking about.
Seems to me like that’s exactly what we’re talking about- explaining things simply to lazy Americans.
We’re talking about whether or not it’s dehumanizing to constantly other trans people in a way that doesn’t apply to cis people. You kinda seem like you just want an argument though.
I think a big difference here is that you keep saying that this legitimizes him or his behaviour. That does not seem at all obvious to many of us.
Pointing out these facts provides context for those of us that don’t know. I do not believe it legitimizes anything. If you see it that way, you are probably on the extreme end of the issue ( either side ).
This is not an accusation. I can feel your genuine concern that it legitimizes his statements. I want to reassure you that it does not. The people that will take it as evidence of legitimacy do not need a reason to feel right. So who cares what they think?
It never would have occurred to me that her gender or gender history somehow supported Elon Musk until you started to say so.
I suspect that it’s more for “engagement” and clickbait than malice from the headline writer.
that is if you don’t think that this kind of communication isn’t harmful to the human race at least. Which it is. Obviously.
I agree it’s not to intentionally target her maliciously, but it is malicious: how does the story change if you just say ‘daughter’? If she was a Catholic convert would it be ‘Elon Musks Transgender Catholic Daughter’? I understand part of his hatred towards her is that she’s transgendered, but we don’t have to allow that. And as I said, other news agencies aren’t (all) doing that.
Elon Musks Estranged Black Jewish Transgendered Daughter.
I do by best to try to refer to her as his ex daughter. Maybe it’s just my own relationship with my own disowning but it’s definitely a valuable distinction imo
That’s a great point, she does even say she doesn’t want any association with him.
Yeah I think by calling her his ex daughter it’s an acknowledgment that the father shaped wound on her is an aching scar not something that’s going to heal nice and fine. A lot of people like to respond to disowning like it’s definitely going to be temporary and everything will be fine again. It does tend to be temporary, but sometimes it isn’t and it’s healthy to deal with it as if it probably won’t be but might be. It’s not comforting to hear it probably will be anyways. And even if the connection is reestablished it’s always going to bear that damage. The baseline level of trust that parents are supposed to have of being your first and most secure source of support and love is gone.
I do not expect Ms. Wilson and Mr. Musk to ever reconcile. His behavior towards her has been atrocious as was his behavior towards her mother. Furthermore Mr. Musk seems to be completely incapable of accepting responsibility for his bad behavior.
I resonate with your sentiment and applaud you bringing it up, but in this case I feel it’s pretty relevant to the story. It’s the trans aspect that caused Musk to say a bunch of shitty stuff about her to begin with. If the story was about her winning the lottery or something else unrelated, I’d be 100% with you.
My point is their legitimizing his reasoning. They’re saying this is the reason he did it. Let him say that. Never let him try to shy away from it, make it so if he’s going to misgender/deadname/etc he’s openly doing it.
Think about it, the story title should go:
“Elon Musks daughter speaks out about her fathers homophobia, bigotry, etc”
Let him try to legitimize it and fail, don’t give him the step up first. Make him look like the lunatic he is for raving about his ‘dead son’ or whatever, let him hang himself with his own rope. She even says:
She had no choice in this at all, she is who she is, so we need to stop helping make a minor part of her identity her identifying characteristic.
I agree with what you’re saying to a point. As a trans person, the media doesn’t care about us, we’re nothing more than a headline to them. But saying she’s trans doesn’t legitimize anything. The sad truth is that this is the reason he did it. Highlighting the fact that his daughter is trans just shows the hypocrisy of saying you’re all about family values while spewing hateful rhetoric about your own family.
He’s got 11 other kids. Just saying his daughter doesn’t identify any of them.
I don’t personally feel it legitimizes it at all, but regardless, journalists should report all the relevant facts, not withhold some to make a point. Her being trans is relevant to the story. If I read a news article on it that didn’t report that, and then I found out later, if probably stop reading that publication because it would have been shown to be withholding facts to make some point.