- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
KEY TAKEAWAYS
- Swedish Minister wants to deport migrants who do not hold Swedish citizenship if they show support to terrorist groups.
- The spokesperson for migration policy in Sweden wants the law to be even more stringent - to include anyone who shows such acts of support.
- Tourists, citizens, and residence permit holders can all be affected by such changes.
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…and let me guess. Critizing Israel’s actions is tacit support of Hezbollah?
Sweden up until recently had freedom of organization protected in the constitution. This was changed in a recent constitutional amendment at the request of Turkey, as a prerequisite to join NATO. Turkey demanded that Sweden arrest “PKK members” (aka journalists that Erdogan doesn’t like), and to show support, both the Andersson and Kristersson administrations revived a constitutional amendment from 2021 and pushed it through, making it illegal to be a member of a terrorist organization.
https://www.regeringen.se/rattsliga-dokument/statens-offentliga-utredningar/2021/03/sou-202115/
https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/6/pdf/220628-trilat-memo.pdf
It’s really an unfortunate development, since the terms “terrorist organization” and “support to terrorism” is so poorly defined, and it’s clearly intended to punish political opposition in dictatorships, like Turkish and Kurdish opposition in Turkey. Very much a chilling effect on political discussion when foreign political oppositions are banned from speaking in Sweden, even when racist hate groups are still allowed to speak.
It does seem that the current law is still quite limited, at least. The Terrorist crime law of 2022 (Terroristbrottslagen) outlaws support, propagandizing, and recruiting for terrorist organizations, but this seems to be limited to only material support, organized propaganda and organization leadership. Simply going around waving a PKK flag still is legal, for now.
So luckily, I don’t think it’s possible to be deported simply for expressing expressing pro-Kurdish or pro-Palestinian independence ideas, or even expressing support for the violent people in PKK or Hamas.
Johan Forssell has also expressed a wish for a new law making it illegal to be in a criminal gang, but this has not passed yet. His view on the ongoing wars with Israel seems to be that Israel “has a right to defend itself”, but that civilians must be protected and receive aid.
Close. It makes you a Hamas headquarters.
Hope nobody here supports Nelson Mandela.
Best deport all Swedish politicians in parliament in 1990: https://archive.nelsonmandela.org/index.php/za-com-mr-s-24 And the party that this minister is in was against supporting the ANC and Mandela. So I would not be surprised if this argument won’t move him.
Mandela died in 2013
Sinwar died in 2024
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Bowie died in 2016
It doesn’t matter where in the world you are, the issue with forcibly deporting people is always the same: what do you do if the country you want to deport them to refuses to take them?
And the only answers I can see are let them go free in your country or keep them locked up indefinitely.
And it’s kind if shitty to try to just throw the problem at another country.
Not really, if you just gather all the people you commit atrocities against, and send them to the middle east, you might get away with it. Hell you might even claim to be a bastion of peace and freedom.
Some more ideas:
Call the people you sent “civilized” against “barbarians”
Call them “the only democracy” in the middle east (you might need to overthrow some government in the nearby regions)
Commit more atrocities so more and more people go to your “solution”.
That is true. The swedish government is pushing quite hard to overfill prisons, probably in a long term plan to force it towards privatization. So I would not be surprised if it is even part of the plan.
But, also, I think one strategy suggested is just paying them. Threaten with prison, see at what price they break.
Find a third country is also possible, but can be difficult for terrorist supporters.
It can be difficult period. Why should any country take immigrants your country doesn’t want for any reason?
And “terrorist supporter” could be a very broad category. Are you a terrorist supporter if you support resistance against Israeli troops in Gaza? Because Israel and some of its allies would say yes.
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This sounds very unconstitutional? It does say “everyone” so the principle of equality under the law should apply. Right???
EDIT, aw fuck:
Non-Swedish citizens and non-Swedish legal persons Art. 3. For those who are not Swedish citizens or Swedish legal persons, special restrictions may be laid down in law in respect of freedom of expression under this Fundamental Law.
Well that sounds horrible. Sweden, do better.
Absolutely not. Countries should not accept people who are incompatible with their culture. That just causes division.
That assumes a country has a single culture.
So we should tolerate say, nazi culture everywhere?
The paradox of tolerance is a thing.
You’re conflating a political ideology with a culture.
You clearly haven’t read about pre-ww2 Germany, they were trying to enforce their vision of what they thought German culture should be.
They had ideals, organizations for children, they pushed music, arts, literature they felt glorified their German ideal and the expectations in service of the state.
Yeah, all of that, that was the party program of the NSDAP, a political party.
No it doesn’t. It assumes that countries have synergistic cultures.
I don’t know what that means. European countries have multiple cultures in them.
That said, your catchphrase is typically used to imply that Islam is incompatible with Europe. But there exist several countries in geographical Europe with Islam as an established religion. Greece has an official Muslim minority. Bosnia, Albania can be classified as plurality-muslim countries. European Turkey, west of the Bosphorus has more people than many European countries. And there are sizeable non-immigrant Muslim communities all over eastern and southeastern Europe. Islam has been part of the European story for a millennium. So I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Islam is as European as apple pie is American.
My “catchphrase” is something I personally said, not someone else’s rhetoric. I would ask that you do not make assumptions about what I am saying based on what other people say. If the people who are Islam have a culture that is compatible with that country, let them in. If they are of a culture that practices or supports sharia law and your country believes in women’s freedoms, they probably should not be accepted.
This law was passed due to Turkey wanting to get rid of pkk supporters in Sweden. They basically said we’re are going to keep blocking you from joining NATO unless you take care of the kurds in your country.
Nationalist rhetoric detected.
I’m not saying one culture is better than another. I’m saying if the cultures are incompatible, you shouldn’t force them together.
In other words, if you are a household that is obsessed with a particular football team, you probably shouldn’t get a roommate that is obsessed with your team’s rivals. Any time football is brought up, you will be at odds. I’m not saying liking one football team over the other is the correct choice, just that incompatible beliefs breeds hostility.
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Ideally different parties should have more in common than what separates them. Otherwise you get what has been happening between Republicans and Democrats in the USA. Willingly introducing that separation is foolishness.
“Your culture is incompatible with our culture and therefore you shouldn’t live here” is exactly the same rhetoric neonazi politicians use where I’m from, so sorry but your comment has a beeping red light on it for me.
If a neo Nazi said “the sky is blue”, would you say everyone who says the sky is blue is repeating neo Nazi rhetoric?
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Where would Swedish government deport native Swedish citizens to? Ohio?
You go too far!
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They also want to deport for “bristande vandel”, “bad behavior/way of living”, which this probably will fall under. In their examples of what constitutes “bristande vandel” one is: being a victim of a crime. Robbed? Deportation. Raped? Deportation.
I mean if I’m at home I can fart anytime I want and put my feet on the table, if I’m a guest I would not do such things, that’s not inequality.
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Well, what if you are homeless, someone offers to take you to live with them, and then they kick you out for farting?
If I’m homeless and someone offers to take me, for fucking sure I’m going to be on my best behaviour.
Still, letting you freeze to death for farting would be wrong, even if it was impolite.
Is the BDS movement classified as a terrorist organisation? What about ANTIFA?
The same minister probably:
That party who are against me, I’d call them terrorists!
And yet Israel supporters will be fine.
It aint a genocide when the lords “chosen” people do on “their” land.
Wtf is going on sweden?
How big of an issue can this be lol
Did all “terrorist” just moved there for some reason?
The Sweden Democrats, once an openly Nazi but now a “not Nazis we promise” party are in the government. Like all “not Nazis” they spend most of their time looking for nebulous reasons to remove foreigners from the country.
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Thats a hellva a list tho…
What is the business here for the gangs? Drugs?
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They are related - gangs in Sweden (consisting largely of non-citizens) have started taking “pay by order” terrorist attacks from the Islamist Ayatollah regime in Iran. There’s currently ongoing deliberations whether to activate terror laws against the criminal organizations that do these things, since those actions, by definition, make them terror organizations.
[citation needed]
Citation, straight from SÄPO (Swedish national security police)
Good, immigrants who support terrorism don’t belong in Sweden or any other Western country.
Send them back and let them live with the organization they support.
Yeah, this suuuurely won’t be used to silence pro-Palestine protestors.
If they are non citizen immigrants and are advocating for terrorist organizations who incite violence then they aren’t a good fit for a Western Democracy and should be deported.
Support for Palestine is not support for a terrorist organization. But a law such as this could be used on a pro-Palestinian organizer on the false claim that support for Palestine is support for hamas.
Also, deported where exactly?
What constitutes a terrorist organization is up to the elected officials and police organizations to define. It is not outlined in the article.
Non-citizen immigrants who support terrorists should be deported back to their country of origin.
What constitutes a terrorist organization is up to the electric officials and police organizations to define.
That’s kind of the point, mate. In the current political climate I half expect them to start describing any organization giving humanitarian aid to Palestinians as terrorists.
But to ask the real questions: is providing material support to terrorists not already a crime in Sweden? Does having a Swedish criminal record not complicate eg visa renewals and make it harder for someone to stay in or return to the country? Assuming that’s the case, why is this something that needs to be specially handled now? Is this actually a problem, or just a way to stoke racism and fear for political benefit?
Because what we’ve found is governments are so good at determining who is right in a particular conflict.
If they are non-citizen immigrants advocating for organizations who use violence to attain their goals then they are not a good fit for Western Democracies and should be deported.
Especially if they immigrated from a western democracy. They need to go back to their hive of evil and treachery. Pesky democracy havers.
Non-Citizens who support terrorist organizations then they should be deported back to their country of origin full stop.
If that is another Western Democracy then so be it.
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If you read the article it states they are targeting non Citizens.
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So we should deport Israelis because Israel backed Hamas’ displacement of the secular moderates with predictable results?
Don’t pretend your hatred is principled.
I was about to say you are braindead, but it seems you are just American, I am really sorry.
Racism and sycophantic nationalism seems to be alive and well elsewhere in the world…
Yes, anyone who supports Israel should be deported to The Hague.
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I’m about it. The immigrants have honestly fucked up sweden so badly. It’s all my family back over there can talk about.
sounds like you should get a second opinion
It’s a bad situation. Muslim culture is incompatible with Swedish values. This is why Sweden is starting to lean to the right and there is growth with the nazis. The Swedes are very kind people and they wanted to help but this mass Muslim migration has backfired on them pretty bad. There are now much more attacks on women and LGBT people. The crime has skyrocketed. Rapes have skyrocketed. I travel back and forth between the USA and Sweden often to visit family, and have steadily watched how things have gotten worse.
i mean, no. there is nothing in “Muslim culture” about forming criminal gangs and throwing grenades. this is all about our social systems breaking down due to being overloaded. it’s an integration failure on the state’s part. people were put in places that were already not well off and that forms societal black holes where it is very difficult to get away. organized crime then seems very attractive.
the attacks on women and hbtq+ people are by those selfsame nazis. crime has, interestingly enough, stayed the same. violent crime has risen, yes, but other crime has fallen as a result.
rapes have not skyrocketed. this is a common right-wing talking point outside of sweden, and “ex-pats” love using this as an example of how the country has gone to shit. what actually happened was we changed the way crimes are reported, to make things that were formerly sexual harassment classify as rape of some degree. this is a good thing, as it highlights these behaviours as unacceptable rather than them just being tolerated.
honestly, it sounds like you should talk to more people while visiting.
Peak ignorance right here. It’s a combination of factors. The origin point is indeed the utter failure to set up proper integration systems and regulate migration during the 2010s, which in turn meant that the people who came here were not educated in Swedish language, laws and values, leaving them outside the jobs market. It is also made worse by the fact that a significant portion of the people who came during that period have been brought up in cultures with highly incompatible views and values (for a concrete example, considering secular law a subordinate to religious shariah laws) , which makes integration that much more difficult. After some 7 years, only a third of adult Syrians have managed to get jobs - compare this to recent Ukranian refugees, where 2/3rds have jobs after two years.
For instance, whilst I worked in healthcare in Sweden, we on several occasions had patients refuse care from female coworkers on account of them being women. Something basically previously unheard of that’s became a recurring issue. Every time it happened, it was a non-Swede, and oftentimes they had difficulties with speaking the language. Now I’ve had plenty of Swedish patients who were casually misogynistic against my coworkers, but never to the degree that they would demand to be treated by a man and outright refuse care.
rapes have not skyrocketed. this is a common right-wing talking point outside of sweden, and “ex-pats” love using this as an example of how the country has gone to shit. what actually happened was we changed the way crimes are reported, to make things that were formerly sexual harassment classify as rape of some degree. this is a good thing, as it highlights these behaviours as unacceptable rather than them just being tolerated.
I have included some pertinent statistics from the past twenty years [Source is BRÅ (Swedish ministry for crime prevention) - www.bra.se]
There has long trend of increasing sexual crimes of almost all types in Sweden (The only exception is sexual coercion), the change in definitions was limited, and is really only a minor confounding factor when compared to the overall picture. Besides, in 2019 they did their best to split out the expanded definitions (see rows 3 & 4) and the number of crimes covered are very small in comparison to the whole.
As for the demographics of those convicted, I find this far less relevant. Migrants are the victims in the majority of crimes committed by migrants (and the criminals and terrorists in question represent a minority of that group). As such, upholding the law is as much for the sake of the larger migrant community as for Swedish society as a whole.
However, if you’re still interested in the connections between demographics and crime, you can read here:
this is good data. it feels weird to open a post with an insult only to then align with what i said albeit with more nuance than i could be bothered to add in a post on an internet forum. the brå statistic is a bit more dour than i’d wished. it would be interesting to see the number per capita, as our population has swelled a lot since 2000.
and yeah, the values thing. i am all for “when in rome”, and that seems increasingly uncommon. i have never encountered it personally but it is obviously happening. i wouldn’t take it as far as the previous guy did though, because you get into Nyheter Idag territory if you go that way.
also the research article cuts off before the migrant crisis started…
also the research article cuts off before the migrant crisis started…
The migrant crisis was already at its peak in 2015 (when the data cut off). Other studies on general crime suggests further skewing of demographics after 2015, but they do not study specifically sexual crimes.
then align with what i said albeit with more nuance than i could be bothered to add
Except it doesn’t. Your conclusions were that (a) this is only because our social systems are breaking down, (b) attacks on women & lgbt individuals are perpetrated by nazis and has stayed the same, © rape has not increased.
On (a), I contrast your singular cause with the fact that social breakdown is caused by a combination of what you mentioned, what the original guy mentioned (albeit in somewhat more polite terms) and a failure to align the amount of people that were taken in with the capacity of our social systems.
On (b) & ©, these statements are just plain wrong, as indicated by both the BRÅ data and the linked study. The trend of sex crimes increasing starts before the change in definitions, and they are (according to the cited study) usually perpetrated by non-Swedes.
As for population increase, the number of registered people in Sweden was 10’551’707 on dec. 31st 2023 and 8’975’670 on dec. 31st 2003, which is an increase of 20%. Thus, accounting for the population increase, the rate of sex crimes in Sweden has increased by 103.6% since the year 2003 and rapes by 208%.
E: 2000 -> 2003
you’re sort of mixing my points together in order to get the least charitable interpretation. the “only” and “and” are doing some heavy lifting. i don’t feel like doing this whole semantic song and dance every time i post something just because people refuse to read between the lines. let’s leave it at you gave numbers and those numbers taught me something.
If the social systems are breaking down from being overloaded, it sounds like too many immigrants were accepted and some need to be sent back.
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Was it functional the 30 years before the increase in immigration?
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Literally all of this is true lol. Was just in Sweden last month. Got this information from first hand experience and talking to people in the Gothenburg area.
Also
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/b1ticq22a
And
https://www.gisreportsonline.com/r/sweden-immigrants-crisis/
And
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Not OP but I like poking around statistics, and dislike when people misrepresent data.
Here is 20 years of data for sex crimes from BRÅ in all of its glory (for our non-swedish speaking friends who might have a hard time figuring out what’s what on a Swedish website). For context, “Våldtäkt” means rape, which is the second row with numbers in our table. This is the one we’ll be looking at.
there was a spike in reported rapes after 2014 since the definition of rape was altered, but that has decreased since 2016.
This isn’t quite right.
As we can see in the above table, the number of reported rapes has increased by some 38.7% since 2014 and 38.4% since 2016 (contrary to your claims). We can also see that the trend of increasing sexual crimes in Sweden has been ongoing since before the change in definitions, which indicates that this likely isn’t the primary cause of the increase, and furthermore that this trend persisted through to 2022.
For those of y’all who lived in countries with lockdowns, and are surprised by an increase through the pandemic, we didn’t have lockdowns here in Sweden. As a matter of fact, there were quite a few young people who came here visiting from other Schengen countries specifically to escape lockdown.
When looking at the larger picture, we can see that there’s a longer trend of increasing sex crimes, going on for many years. Comparing to the year 2003, the per-capita adjusted increase of reported sex crimes is 103.6% and of reported rapes 208%.
Here’s also a study on demographics of perpetrators of rape in Sweden. The most shocking piece of data in it is clearly that 0.3% of those convicted aren’t men, the real champions of gender equality…
https://doi.org/10.1080/20961790.2020.1868681
The crime has skyrocketed. Rapes have skyrocketed
When you look the other way while Gaza hosts Hamas, and Lebanon hosts Hezbollah, and Syria hosts Iranian weapons shipments, when they all attack Israel with Iranian funded rockets and incursions, the fucking around part, and only pipe up when Israel responds in the attempt to defend itself and wipe out it’s enemies, because it’s enemies are embedded in civilian populations for the sole reason of ginning up your support when Israel is forced to respond, the finding out part, then you’re a supporter of Terrorism.
If the fucking around part doesn’t get you to speak up, but only the finding out part does, bad news, you’re an antisemite.
Hamas are Palestinians, hizbollah are Lebanese. Hosting arms in Syria is just like the USA having bases all over the world. Resistance groups in history committed many atrocities against civilians due to the lack of justice. The occupying power will always be responsible for everything happening to them. Don’t colonize people and expect the oppressed to be nice to you
Wow, you really must be an actual idiot. I’m honestly kind of impressed.
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