IMO this is why the Democrats need to start work on the next election candidate yesterday.
When I say Democrats, I say those that want a progressive leader rather than another “safe” career politician. Find a candidate that is willing to stand, create a section of the Democrats (or back the Democratic Socialists of America), and do everything to empower this person towards running.
I know that many will say “buh actually there won’t be more elections because Trump evil”. Trump isn’t lasting a third term, nor is he actually going to follow through on half of the shit he says he’ll do. He’s a loose cannon, and he’s already doing shit that’s pissing off the GOP that want Project 2025. Like with the last Trump presidency, the GOP think they control the White House, but in reality it’s demantia-ridden Trump.
Focus on getting someone in that can spend eight years after fixing what Trump has done.
pedons don’t decide who is running on the national ticket… see bernie 2016
Right as always. Too bad he’ll never be prez…
The hypocrisy I see as an outsider. American left demanding old white men get out of politics, yet wanting Bernie, an old white man. Why is it that only YOUR dinosaur should rule? Bernie doesn’t even have a protoge, he should! Not having one shows he’s not interested in ceding power or influence and doesn’t want a young person around
Edit: the down votes prove my point on the hypocrisy. If you guys actually cared about what Bernie says you would have all voted Harris
Wtf? A protege? Ceding power? We don’t want a king, you fucking shitwit. The person who follows him needs to put in the work, same as he did. They’re supposed to be serving us, not the other way around, you twatwaffle.
If you just read the cover of a book, you’ll never trully understand the story within
Im14andthisisdeep
“This is deep” is something you’ll never hear from a woman.
I’m not 'merican but I like bernie because he just makes sense
Same, but he can’t win. So really what’s the point? He can’t even run the Democratic nomination let alone the entire country. He’s got great ideas but I think for the length of his career he can be pretty ineffectual. He needed a protoge to prepare for the next generation but never did
They were never with us
You’re not working class if you’re a software developer. If you think you know their world, you’re also delusional or larping.
Yeah. Sorry, you are negating my very existence with this comment and I’m fucking right here and one billion percent in the working class socioeconomic strata. GTFO with your broad stroke generalizations.
“Working class” refers to people whose main source of income is a salary earned on exchange for labour, in a free contract between them and an employer.
“Capitalist class” refers to the ones purchasing the labour power of others in order to have them work capital that the former own.
You’re confusing “working class” with “lower class”. The concepts of low, middle and upper class are quite diffuse, mostly based on income, and used to draw artificial barriers between workers who at the end of the day have more common interests than different ones.
I don’t know the person you’re responding to but I have to say that not all software developers earn lots of money like the folks in silicon valley. I earnt less than the median wage in my country for a long time. Also if you’re renter in a country with a rental crisis you’re be losing most of your wages to that, and getting kicked out every 12 months, losing your savings to moving costs. I’m more stressed than I was working as a manual labourer in 2009.
I’m one of those highly paid Silicon Valley workers.
But I’m still working class because I trade my labor for the money I need to live. I trade my labor for the healthcare that keeps me and my wife alive.
I’m working class because I can’t afford not to work.
Don’t let the owners of this country divide us up any longer. They love it when we fight amongst each other to determine who is really “working class” because it means we in-fight instead of challenging them.
No war but class war.
I understand where you’re coming from, but I can also understand that someone who works full time but still has to use food vouchers to eat would take umbrage at being put in the same class category as you. I’m relatively comfortable, but precarious (and wouldn’t last long without my job), but I’m not part of the working poor.
They did decades ago too. But they still are actively refusing to acknowledge the American working class exists and are struggling.
Whoever told Kamala to brag about the economy to anyone that isn’t a millionaire needs to be the first person to never work in politics again, but most of the DNC leadership clearly are either intentionally blowing elections because that’s what their donors won’t, or are completely and totally inept.
We need a popular vote of registered Dem voters to determine DNC leadership and party platform If we keep giving leadership to whoever gets the most donations, they’ll keep ignoring the working class because it’s easier to get money from the wealthy.
But they still are actively refusing to acknowledge the American working class exists and are struggling.
The Bern is smart and usually right about these kind of things.
That said, I’d argue that even in the campaign this year some steps were taken in the right direction, e.g.
We have not even brought forth legislation to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, despite the fact that some 20 million people in this country are working for less than $15 an hour
But then, https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/23/politics/federal-minimum-wage-harris-trump/index.html
Whoever told Kamala to brag about the economy to anyone that isn’t a millionaire needs to be the first person to never work in politics again
I can see this as being a calculated risk - take credit for something that sounds good - but yeah they forgot the maxim “it’s the economy, stupid!”
We need a popular vote of registered Dem voters to determine DNC leadership and party platform
Better yet, a reformed system so that a third party who implements this has a legitimate shot at the highest offices.
If we keep giving leadership to whoever gets the most donations, they’ll keep ignoring the working class because it’s easier to get money from the wealthy.
Perhaps I defeated myself here - I came here to justify the Dems but if I’m saying we have a better shot at reforming the US constitution than we do at reforming the internals of the Dem party, then I’ve really done the opposite.
I understand that online this inaccurate sentiment is in the 24-hour news cycle so you’ll see a lot of inaccurate articles today, but in real life, Biden has proven himself with direct legislative and personal action to be the most pro-union pro-working class president in decades.
If you’re unaware of the legislative actions he’s dedicated to the working class during his presidency alone(higher wages, union rights, employee rights and so on), you can check out this list:
He literally shut down a strike and threatened to send the workers to jail if there were any work stoppages. If that’s the “most pro-union” the democrats have got, then the working class needs to abandon you entirely next election and form a third party, because you’re our enemies.
as i mentioned, you are quoting the same single misunderstood instance of perceived anti-union activity and are ignoring his entire administration’s commitment to the working class, workers rights and increased wages, and unions.
give the article a read, it’s a good article with plenty of supported facts.
It’s not “perceived” anti-union, it WAS anti-union. Stop trying to gaslight people. I do t give a shit how many platitudes he gave, he showed where he stood once, and that was enough. Just like no amount of his hand-wringing over Gaza changes the fact that he and Harris support the genocide, and planned to continue funding Israeli war crimes. He’s a shit human being, and an enemy of the people.
Clearly you’re still refusing to read the article and unaware of what that union, who likes Biden, says about Biden.
you don’t know what you’re talking about.
and that’s okay.
but read the article.
Biden didn’t give “platitudes”, he passed legislation that strengthened employee rights, raised employee wages, and strengthened unions.
you are comically incorrect.
Biden has proven himself with direct legislative and personal action to be the most pro-union pro-middle class president in decades.
The problem is that the bar is so low that this is true
The qualifier isn’t even necessary.
bar notwithstanding, even by the measures of a progressive presidency, the legislation biden has dedicated to and enacted for the working class is very impressive.
That can’t be said about the measures taken by any other president in at least half a century.
the most pro-union pro-middle class president in decades
So you agree with Bernie that he wasn’t helping the working class?
middle class
noun
- The socioeconomic class between the working class and the upper class, usually including professionals, highly skilled laborers, and lower and middle management.
- A social and economic class lying above the working class and below the upper class
nope, if you read the rest of the comment detailing unions, employee rights and wages, you may be able to work out that “middle” is clearly a typo and the context is obviously the working class.
I wrote “working” class in the next sentence the second time I referenced biden’s policies in the same comment.
The link in the same comment also mentions “working” people.
but at least you were super obnoxious about a typo for no reason!
Don’t hurt yourself patting your own back.
My guy, you made a typo which undercut your own argument, this was not me being pedantic over something like spelling or sentence structure.
I’ll accept that I could have worded it better, but it was a genuine question after having read your post, touting “middle class” Biden policies.
“you made a typo which undercut your own argument,”
A single word that is very obviously referencing the working class like every other part of the comment, that you could only interpret as an “undercut” if you are not reading or understanding any of the rest of the comment and do not even read the title of the linked article referencing the working class.
“this was not me being pedantic”
I doubt you could get more pedantic.
you are focusing on a single word desperately trying to misunderstand the OP, every single other practical and context clue in three paragraphs of a comment, plus an article about the working class.
“it was a genuine question after having read your post”
is this true? you thought to yourself:
"hm, the post is about the working class, this commenter references the working class specifically, he references three working class issues biden made progress on, links an article specifically titled “working class”, but he did type “middle” once in the second paragraph.
I can’t tell what this comment is about!"
If you truly went through this process and that is the level of your reading comprehension, then I can leave it there, with my sympathies.
You’re interpreting “hey, this word you used is contrary to the rest of your argument - are you sure about your argument?” in a confrontational manner. Hence the question mark, and not something like “dumbass, Bernie was talking about the working class smh”. Hence the definition copypasta, because you (seemingly) conflated working class with middle class.
I can go back and absolutely re-read my post through the lens of condescension instead of a question, but so far you’re the only one who’s maintained an insulting tone.
"!You’re interpreting “hey, this word you used is contrary to the rest of your argument - are you sure about your argument?” in a confrontational manner. "
that is not what you wrote.
I’m interpreting what you wrote as confrontational because you wrote a completely different confrontational statement than your pretend-quote above.
despite the OP writing about the working class, me responding with the phrase"working class", pointing out three specific working class issues biden improved, linking an article titled “working class”, you wrote:
"So you agree with Bernie that he wasn’t helping the working class?
middle class
noun
- The socioeconomic class between the working class and…"
trying your hardest to ignore the post, comment, all of the context clues and available information so you could focus on a typo to come to an incorrect conclusion you could hold up with a pedantic flourish via boldtype and a definition.
you are being obnoxious, pedantic and confrontational.
If you were confused, you could have written:
"did you mean “working class”?
you wrote middle class."
instead, you went to the trouble of puzzling out a clearly incorrect conclusion despite all of the direct and contextual evidence, add boldtype unnecessarily, and very obnoxiously attach a definition to a phrase I’m obviously very familiar with since I’m talking about it with familiarity, citing specific examples and an article.
“Hence the question mark”
adding a question mark doesn’t mitigate how obnoxious your comments are.
you’re deliberately trying to misunderstand something so that you can attack me based on a minor error that is easily remedied and understood despite, within the context of the fuller comment or post.
you seem very happy to 1. lie about your direct quotes 2. lie about your intention based on those quotes 3. continue to defend those false quotes rather than apologizing and admitting you acted poorly.
The logical conclusion for your behavior is that you’re trying to extend an argument, despite you not having a leg to stand on.
you can keep trying to make things up, and I will keep not letting that fly.
“I can go back and absolutely re-read my post…”
don’t hurt yourself, who knows if you can manage the burden of glancing… or heaven forbid, reading?
question mark, so it’s not confrontational?
I’m disengaging bc this is going nowhere and besides, sidebar rules - stay on topic.
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and stood on their picket line. go ahead, try giving that article a read if you can manage.
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“He literally busted a strike”.
this is the one example people are going to deliberately misinterpret so that you don’t take the trouble to actually read about or understand his supportive working class or union policies, specifically the linked article above showing many of the legislative and direct action he’s taken to help the work in class and the unions during his presidency.
you can click that link and literally follow other hyperlinks to the legislation established.
“It still amazes me his pr team…”
again, this is actual legislation and action, not PR. Stop blindly repeating headlines, they are inaccurate and you are twisting yourself up.
look for comprehensive evidence of concrete actions and consequences concerning your anxieties.
hint: objective, irrefutable evidence of biden’s support for the middle class and unions is in that article I linked above
Working class was abandoned right after fall of USSR if not out right during demented Raygoon
it took us 40 years to figure this out tho… gonna need to do better here peasants.
Yep, the USSR’s existence as a competing superpower forced the American ruling class to focus on preventing a similar revolution domestically. Now with the fall of the USSR, the PRC is the next in line, and relations have soured since the 90s and 2000s when it looked like the PRC was going down a similar path as the USSR’s liberalization and eventual collapse, but this turned out to not be the case as the PRC has started increasing public ownership and planning under Xi.
The Democrats are overly centralized for their diverse coalition, and can’t please all of the ethnic groups, working class, indistinguishable middle class, and billionaire donors.
Can we have viable 3rd parties please?
And please don’t start with a presidential election, just get on local city and town councils, school boards and build from there.
I vote 3p straight ticket until 1) something changes OR 2) i am dead.
I am done feeding regime whores my votes and to provide this clown set up any legitimacy.
As side note, when you vote 3P, look up your local rules to ensure that your vote is actually counted! you must do this otherwise, it is the same as not voting and many states won’t count your vote unless you do it right.
Disgusting 2 party system is there to preserve owner class grip on power.
Congrats on wasting your vote for life. We all appreciate your sacrifice.
That’s my vote to waste ;)
I hope everyone else does with theirs what they deem proper.
Thats no excuse not to vote and enable fascism. That lead to there never being free elections again so 0 chance to improve things.
Fascism is Capitalism in decay, it can’t be stopped at the ballot box. I highly recommend reading theory, it can help make sense of our modern world. I made an intro to Marxism reading list that you can check out, the second work listed Blackshirts and Reds goes over the historical causes, aims, and reasons for fascism in the first chapter.
Our elections were never going to change things. Losing electoralism isn’t great don’t get me wrong but when the only people you can reasonably get elected are presented to you by the owning class it isn’t a free election.
There is a reason we call so many problems “systemic”
The US is just an oligarchy. Most political scientists agree these days.
It might not be Russia-levels of oligarchy, but it’s trending that way.
What you call “oligarchy” is just the natural consequence of Capitalism’s centralizing forces.
Both can be true. I agree with you.
I do think calling Capitalism’s end stage as “oligarchy” gets in the way of depicting the very real tie to its eventual collapse that comes from this centralization, though.
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If Bernie Bros actually cared about what Bernie says, they would have voted Harris
And they did. Liberals just can’t admit they are, and have been since Reagan, the problem.
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The only time Bernie Sanders is right, is when he’s apologizing and walking back the last time he was wrong.
It’s amusing how this comment manages to be so non-specific and vague while also flamebaiting.
Bring an actual contribution to the thread or fuck off.
They have a point. Bernie was supporting Kamala until election day, and using language such as “the conflict in Israel and Gaza” in order to try and placate more progressive voters and get them to hold their nose strong enough to vote for Kamala. Now that the strategy failed, instead of owning it and apologising, now that Bernie is opposition again instead of belonging to the establishment through the party in government, he can appeal to progressives
Stop blaming the democrats. It’s the people who voted for the weirdos party. Conservatives care about the working class less than democrats. Would You prefer democrats to bullshit people just so they can win? Trump’s win is the fault of Americans being the stupidest people on earth.
The Democrats campaigned to the right rather than appeal to the Working Class, and failed to garner the support required to win. Their loss is their fault.
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