Image ID
ID: A poster in 3 segments, 2 at the top and one bellow:
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The text “if we wait for the government it will be too late” above a drawing of 4 people meeting in an airconditioned building. One is Grey and is smiling and showing love to the others, saying “I love you guys!”. The 3 others are red, who is smoking a cigar, green holding a bag of cash, and yellow wearing a top hat represent gas oil and coal respectively.
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The text “if we act as individuals it will be too little” above a drawing of a person in a small but flourishing garden, they are holding up an apple they got from one of their trees, saying " Such… beauty!" with sparkly eyes. Beyond their fence to the left is an incoming tsunami, to the right are a field and trees on fire with bellowing smoke.
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The text “if we act as communities it might just be enough” above a drawing of several groups of people outside. From left to right, there are 3 people standing around a produce table that has a sign above it saying “crop swap on today!”, next to it is a small cabinet marked “seed library”. On the ground in the centre foreground are an adult and 3 children sitting around a campfire, the kids listening intently, the adult has the Australian Aboriginal flag on their shirt. Behind them are an adult and child getting a pizza out of an outdoor oven. To the right is a stall with a sign above it saying “refugees welcome”, in front of it are two adults, one is wearing a head scarf and is holding a baby. In front of the stall are 4 rows of crops growing from the ground.
Quote by Rob Hopkins in “From what is to what if”
Credit: @brenna-quinlan
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Im not entirely sure this message works; I get the intention, but community farming on its own isnt a solution to climate change since farming isnt the only major source of greenhouse gas emissions, and since getting one’s own community sustainable wont be enough unless one gets all or most outside one’s community to do the same. Im also not sure that community agriculture projects like this are necessarily an efficient enough way to grow enough food on the available land space: local agriculture makes sense for reducing logistics related emissions, and for reducing one’s community’s dependence on long supply chains, and having farms run by locals rather than massive businesses would seem good for the locals for reasons of reducing economic exploitation, but those local farms would still benefit from being run on relatively large scales using as much of the technology developed for efficient farming as can be adapted to sustainable methods, because if you just have everyone grow their own food on their own plots, even with community cooperation to help eachother out with that like this implies, you’re basically going back to something like subsistence agriculture, which likely isnt efficient enough to feed everyone (and even if it can be squeezed into doing so with effort, the increased farmland needed to compensate for that drop in efficiency will itself be ecologically disastrous). Realistically, we absolutely need government action (or even action at the international level) to deal with this, because the source of the problem is so much greater than the local level and governments represent a means to enforce rules across communities. If waiting for the government will take “too long”, then what those communities really need to be doing is forcing the government to act faster.
That’s a lot of words to say “I see no value in community” (which is all the post is suggesting, what you get defensive about and why is for you to resolve with yourself)
Edit, because obviously this isn’t clear to some: without a community, and alternative communal structures to fall back on, the current structures can not be abolished and a revolution will never be successful.
No, Im not saying that at all, youre putting words in my mouth there or misunderstanding what I am taking issue with. The picture seems to imply some very specific things about farming specifically (note the mention of seed swaps and such, which arent bad things, but when the top image showing the problem shows a city, and the lower one showing community as a solution focuses on agriculture, its hard not to take the implication from it that the creator is advocating that their idea of community involves everyone being involved in food production rather than delegating to those members of the community that specialize in it, which is something that I think makes things worse on account of less efficient land usage that this implies, but gets used in this kind of imagery a lot. In other words, I think that pictures here dont actually depict the kind of community solution they want to show, and whether through accident or misunderstanding, looks more like some sort of greenwashing.
Jesus nonexistent Christ, dude! Use paragraphs, please!
Your walls of text are reader-unfriendly to the point of almost being hostile!
I humbly submit that communal structures are the revolution.
I would whole heartedly agree. It is the core we must build from.
Your community won’t stop global capitalism. Toppling your reactionary governments and striving for internationalist socialism, however, will.
Although community care and help is an important cornerstone of building dual power!
Nowhere is it even implied that community on its own will stop capitalism, but without it you will achieve no meaningful change.
Like, who the fuck do you think you’re going to be toppling the government and doing socialism with? How the fuck do you think you get people today to understand the value of doing that? How do you gather enough human mass to enact it?
I’m all for a violent abolition of our existing establishments, but this hostility that seems to be coming out of people towards the mere suggestion of the importance of community building is really odd…
You will never get anywhere without a community.
I just meant to add to your post, not dispute it. It just reminded me of utopian solarpunk idealism that has no meaningful longterm vision except for vibes. Hence my perceived harshness
also the second part of my comment should make it clear that I think of community as being vitally important
Your comment reads like you’re shooting down this agitprop because it doesn’t have an explicitly revolutionary spin, which seems extremely counterproductive. If we only stick with revolutionary rhetoric, we will never attract those shy of revolution, who only understand it as a violent upheaval.
Forming communities and spreading agitprop which promotes more community formation is fundamental to any path forward. Communities are the best tool to saving anyone from the currently fucked situation, even if toppling never happens. It’s also the only means to build the trust needed for legitimate organizing. Agitprop only promoting community formation should not only be tolerated or accepted, it should be strongly encouraged.
The problem is that revolution is necessary, and simply hoping things get better isn’t acceptable. Agitprop needs a practical message as well.
Again, whether necessary or not, you are immediately alienating anyone who isn’t ready for revolution by always putting it in the message. If we expect to ever compete with centrist and fascist propaganda, we must implement their same tactics in our agitprop, which means pipelining.
At the same time, what revolution means also varies. Some think hacktivism, asking for Jane, and other counter-establishment movements - for others it’s waging a guerilla war against the US government and the upper class. I just want to get the ball rolling, regardless of where it starts rolling.
I agree with pipelining, but messages can’t conflict or leave out the further conclusions. I do a lot of pipelining on Lemmy myself.
That seems like a pretty arbitrary rule which no other political groups doing pipelining adhere to. Outside messages often contradict as you go deeper with white supremacy, cults, and neoliberal rhetoric. They also constantly leave out the more extreme messaging on the outside and slowly ramp up the other stuff.
I don’t doubt you’ve moved leftists further left, but actually shifting centrists, conservatives, or anyone else does not seem likely with your approach.
Plenty of conservative libertarian farmer types who voted for trump would agree about the importance of community, but they will immediately check out if you even hint at toppling the government, or even mentioning socialized infrastructure. We need to adjust our agitprop so it can at least start reaching out that far, and by doing so we’ll be more likely to capture centrists for pipelining. We need a large portion of most countries if we want a global revolution, and we need agitprop that can gain that.
You adjust ajitprop based on audience, and want to serve as a slide without preventing further movement. If you give a leftist message that takes an anti-revolutionary stance, that makes further pipelining more difficult.
On “lefty memes,” the people are largely liberals and progressives that can be converted into actual leftists with proper messaging, I wouldn’t worry about appealing to libertarian conservatives here.
The above agitprop post is not anti-revolutionary, it is just not explicitly revolutionary. It does not make pipelining harder, as it transitions smoothly into agitprop promoting militant protection of communities and community activism which can mesh cleanly with revolution.
Liberals and progressives are both still solidly in the “work within the system” camp but are receptive to community building and counter-establishment action. I’ve seen them receptive to as far as underground distribution of abortion meds, and even activist vandalism. Most are still shy of the idea of taking up arms, and any mention of ‘revolution’. I expect you will end up getting better capture by just omitting talking about revolution and instead just talking about the actual practices and infrastructure that lead to it.
So, to be a different kind of doomer than the rest of the comments…
How does one do community? I realize that sounds stupid, but like… what can I do to help foster community in my… community?
I ask because tbh I’m not a community builder. When I was a kid, I was raised in a church community, and I knew vaguely what went into that, but I’m not religious anymore. So the only path to community that I’m even remotely familiar with is not viable for me anymore.
I don’t need a treatise or anything, but if you have any practical introductory advice on community building for terminally online leftists with a couple small friend groups, that’d be welcomed.
We have a small area of land that is very rural. We grow a lot of vegetables and all our own chickens, fish and hunt, raise hens for eggs and more. We are regenerative.
We created community by trading with like-minded individuals. We offer one another access to our “junk piles”, equipment, resources and labor. We don’t really fit in where we live but we have found people like us in the middle of nowhere by just existing.
How does one do community?
Depends on the community, I know nothing about who you are, where you’re from, what kind of area you live in (a city block, a small town neighbourhood, and a rural village all have their own different challenges), or what the people around you could use help with.
First of all try to figure out if you’re able to provide anything others could benefit from - time? Money? Equipment? The means to move people or property? Are you an educator? Am advocate? A tinkerer? A builder? A cook? A carer? A writer? An artist? Are you too poor/overworked/disabled and feel like there’s nothing you can currently help with? Whatever the case, there is value to your being part of the community and contributing from your lived experience.
Then try and form relationships with the people around you, and from there learn how you might be able to help. Depending on your community there might be an online group, a newsletter or zine, a community centre, a place of worship, a pub - all are likely to have some leads to people already active in the community who you can join, or at the very least learn from about what’s going on locally, and go from there.
The point is to build solidarity and class (and other injustice) consciousness, and to show people through actions that we are stronger together.
Maybe give some of these a read:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ronald-a-young-anarchist-agitation-community-building
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq-full
https://www.anarchy.no/horizon1.html
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
No spoilers please but I’m currently enjoying the parable of the sower/talents by Octavia E Butler and it feels fitting for this meme and current vibes in general. I know handmaids tale, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, etc get more street cred but this has some value too with some similar uncanny predictions of a future that now feels much more plausible. It is also a very enjoyable read for other reasons!
