I think he’s implying that once you complete your genocide it kind of comes to a natural end. It’s the worst way to end genocide because you killed everyone.
Aside from smaller efforts to deport Jewish people to a bunch of different countries, they also came up with what is basically the first ‘Final Solution’ - one of deportation, not extermination: The Madagascar Plan.
They were going to round up and sent all the Jewish people to Madagascar. But well, they failed to defeat the British and when they realized that an invasion of GB was pretty much impossible, they kind of gave up on it.
A lot of people associate Nazis with extermination camps (which, well obviously it’s true), but extermination was never Plan A for Nazis. They never cared if Jewish people died, but initially they just wanted to get rid of undesirables/Jewish people, not necessarily kill them all. The industrialized genocide came much later, more out of desperation and a need for efficiency than anything else.
This just to say that bullshit arguments like “he’s not a fascist/Nazi because he’s not gassing people” are exactly that: bullshit arguments. Nazis were Nazis long before the first extermination camp was built.
The Nazis had a few ideas for the “Final Solution” of the Jews. The end goal being get them out of the Reich. They tried to send them to Palestine (then under British control) which is a big part of why were stuck with Israel and its fuckery today. Seriously, there was some cooperation between the Jewish militant groups in Palestine and the Nazis. It is seriously a fucked up situation. But, forcing the Jews out of the country didn’t work very well so the Nazis started rounding up and killing them.
Seriously, there was some cooperation between the Jewish militant groups in Palestine and the Nazis.
Guess who was in a Jewish militant group in British-occupied Palestine?
Netanyahu’s parents. They changed their name from something Polish to the much more semitic Netanyahu and emigrated in Palestine in the 1920s with the express idea of creating a Jewish state.
Netanyahu and his family did not suffer from the Holocaust, they benefited from it.
Far too few people know and I don’t blame them or you for not knowing because it’s in Netanyahu’s interest to make people think he’s also a victim and the ever-compliant media plays along.
The only reason I even know is that one day I decided to look up his family and see what happened to them during WWII. So if I hadn’t, sort of on a whim, taken the initiative to look it up, I would be as in the dark about it as most people.
And I wish there were a way for me to let people know beyond “talk about it on internet forums,” but I don’t have that sort of influence.
It’s not even a widely known fact amongst Jews. For the record, I was raised Jewish (don’t really practice, not a big organized religion fan anyways) and I went on birthright back in January '20. Nothing was ever mentioned about the Netanyahu history aside from some stuff about his brother, who is widely regarded over there as a war hero. I know there’s a bit of controversy over his death but not sure on details. I should really go research that.
In mitigation, much of that “cooperation” was in convincing (bribing) Nazis to send Jews to Israel rather than murdering them.
And it’s worth keeping in mind that there were many Zionist groups operating in Palestine at the time, ranging from inclusive socialist idealists to full-scale ethno-religious chauvinists committing acts of terror against the British and the Palestinians.
Iirc, they also sent them into a bunch of countries in a lot of the EU, which worked alright…until they started occupying most of the EU countries then they went into “the final solution”
Actually, concentration camps came very early. And the Nazis were very open about these concentration camps, because they figured they would serve as a deterrent. However, they weren’t initially used to house Jewish people, but mostly for political opponents, like socialists. Later came the intellectuals, journalists, teachers, scientists, etc. And of course other undesirables like gay people.
Extermination camps, however, were a relatively late addition. And they were kept secret. The systemic extermination of Jewish people began after the Wannsee Conference in 1942, where Nazi leadership discussed the Final Solution to the Jewish Problem. Under Operation Reinhard they started building the six extermination camps:
Ethnic cleansing is a step below genocide. The Democrats went for genocide. So far Trump only wants ethnic cleansing. Also his argument for ethnic cleansing is the destruction that the Democrats caused during the genocide.
This is not defend Trump. It is to remember that the Democrats are as equally part of the oligarchy and criminal empire as the Republicans. No positive change can come out of the current Democratic party. It needs to be reformed from the bottom up, or replaced by an actually progressive party.
It is distinct crimes. Forcefully displacing people from an area is not the same as annihilating people. And i am amazed that this is something you want to dispute.
Ethnic cleansing is a step below genocide. There is a possibility that ethnic cleansing escalates to genocide, as has been seen many times in history, but equating the two is like equating murder (genocide) and abduction (ethnic cleansing)
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Ethnic Cleansing
Background
Ethnic cleansing has not been recognized as an independent crime under international law. The term surfaced in the context of the 1990’s conflict in the former Yugoslavia and is considered to come from a literal translation of the Serbo-Croatian expression “etničko čišćenje”. However, the precise roots of the term or who started using it and why are still uncertain.
The expression “ethnic cleansing” has been used in resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly, and has been acknowledged in judgments and indictments of the ICTY, although it did not constitute one of the counts for prosecution. A definition was never provided.
Definition
As ethnic cleansing has not been recognized as an independent crime under international law, there is no precise definition of this concept or the exact acts to be qualified as ethnic cleansing. A United Nations Commission of Experts mandated to look into violations of international humanitarian law committed in the territory of the former Yugoslavia defined ethnic cleansing in its interim report S/25274 as “… rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area.” In its final report S/1994/674, the same Commission described ethnic cleansing as “… a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.”
The Commission of Experts also stated that the coercive practices used to remove the civilian population can include: murder, torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, extrajudicial executions, rape and sexual assaults, severe physical injury to civilians, confinement of civilian population in ghetto areas, forcible removal, displacement and deportation of civilian population, deliberate military attacks or threats of attacks on civilians and civilian areas, use of civilians as human shields, destruction of property, robbery of personal property, attacks on hospitals, medical personnel, and locations with the Red Cross/Red Crescent emblem, among others.
The Commission of Experts added that these practices can “… constitute crimes against humanity and can be assimilated to specific war crimes. Furthermore, such acts could also fall within the meaning of the Genocide Convention.”
But .ml was telling us that Trump would stop the genocide not supercharge it. How can this be? /s
The tankies would never worship and cover for authoritarians!/s
Tbd, it is one way to stop a genocide. Literally the worst one, but it would stop.
No, fucking stop. Ethnic cleansing is genocide. Period.
Or was the Naqba not genocidal?
I think he’s implying that once you complete your genocide it kind of comes to a natural end. It’s the worst way to end genocide because you killed everyone.
Wasn’t it literally plan A for the Nazis?
Aside from smaller efforts to deport Jewish people to a bunch of different countries, they also came up with what is basically the first ‘Final Solution’ - one of deportation, not extermination: The Madagascar Plan.
They were going to round up and sent all the Jewish people to Madagascar. But well, they failed to defeat the British and when they realized that an invasion of GB was pretty much impossible, they kind of gave up on it.
A lot of people associate Nazis with extermination camps (which, well obviously it’s true), but extermination was never Plan A for Nazis. They never cared if Jewish people died, but initially they just wanted to get rid of undesirables/Jewish people, not necessarily kill them all. The industrialized genocide came much later, more out of desperation and a need for efficiency than anything else.
This just to say that bullshit arguments like “he’s not a fascist/Nazi because he’s not gassing people” are exactly that: bullshit arguments. Nazis were Nazis long before the first extermination camp was built.
The Nazis had a few ideas for the “Final Solution” of the Jews. The end goal being get them out of the Reich. They tried to send them to Palestine (then under British control) which is a big part of why were stuck with Israel and its fuckery today. Seriously, there was some cooperation between the Jewish militant groups in Palestine and the Nazis. It is seriously a fucked up situation. But, forcing the Jews out of the country didn’t work very well so the Nazis started rounding up and killing them.
Guess who was in a Jewish militant group in British-occupied Palestine?
Netanyahu’s parents. They changed their name from something Polish to the much more semitic Netanyahu and emigrated in Palestine in the 1920s with the express idea of creating a Jewish state.
Netanyahu and his family did not suffer from the Holocaust, they benefited from it.
Ugh. I knew they were an old family, just didn’t know it was that bad.
Far too few people know and I don’t blame them or you for not knowing because it’s in Netanyahu’s interest to make people think he’s also a victim and the ever-compliant media plays along.
The only reason I even know is that one day I decided to look up his family and see what happened to them during WWII. So if I hadn’t, sort of on a whim, taken the initiative to look it up, I would be as in the dark about it as most people.
And I wish there were a way for me to let people know beyond “talk about it on internet forums,” but I don’t have that sort of influence.
It’s not even a widely known fact amongst Jews. For the record, I was raised Jewish (don’t really practice, not a big organized religion fan anyways) and I went on birthright back in January '20. Nothing was ever mentioned about the Netanyahu history aside from some stuff about his brother, who is widely regarded over there as a war hero. I know there’s a bit of controversy over his death but not sure on details. I should really go research that.
I’m also a non-religious Jew, so yeah, I get that.
Hmmm, but certainly this time it’ll work.
In mitigation, much of that “cooperation” was in convincing (bribing) Nazis to send Jews to Israel rather than murdering them.
And it’s worth keeping in mind that there were many Zionist groups operating in Palestine at the time, ranging from inclusive socialist idealists to full-scale ethno-religious chauvinists committing acts of terror against the British and the Palestinians.
Iirc, they also sent them into a bunch of countries in a lot of the EU, which worked alright…until they started occupying most of the EU countries then they went into “the final solution”
Thank you, yes. By the time they settled on concentration camps, the Nazis where on like the Final Final Final Solution
Actually, concentration camps came very early. And the Nazis were very open about these concentration camps, because they figured they would serve as a deterrent. However, they weren’t initially used to house Jewish people, but mostly for political opponents, like socialists. Later came the intellectuals, journalists, teachers, scientists, etc. And of course other undesirables like gay people.
Extermination camps, however, were a relatively late addition. And they were kept secret. The systemic extermination of Jewish people began after the Wannsee Conference in 1942, where Nazi leadership discussed the Final Solution to the Jewish Problem. Under Operation Reinhard they started building the six extermination camps:
The first 4 camps were built specifically and solely to kill people.
Ethnic cleansing is a step below genocide. The Democrats went for genocide. So far Trump only wants ethnic cleansing. Also his argument for ethnic cleansing is the destruction that the Democrats caused during the genocide.
This is not defend Trump. It is to remember that the Democrats are as equally part of the oligarchy and criminal empire as the Republicans. No positive change can come out of the current Democratic party. It needs to be reformed from the bottom up, or replaced by an actually progressive party.
Go read the actual definition of genocide and then come back.
It is distinct crimes. Forcefully displacing people from an area is not the same as annihilating people. And i am amazed that this is something you want to dispute.
Ethnic cleansing is a step below genocide. There is a possibility that ethnic cleansing escalates to genocide, as has been seen many times in history, but equating the two is like equating murder (genocide) and abduction (ethnic cleansing)
https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition#tab4
Did you even read what you posted?
If Palestinians felt that being displaced from their homes was acceptable, they would have left a long time ago.
This is not an improvement. This is Israel’s ‘final solution’ coming to fruition. Those that allowed Trump to be elected are complicit.