The site doesn’t even allow you to “like” posts. “It seemed to us to be a kind of high school popularity contest, a way of creating a dependency on the platform,” said the founder, holding a mug of tea.
On Facebook, Instagram or X, likes are also used to help algorithms identify users. Here, there’s no need: There’s no algorithm. “On Front Porch Forum, content isn’t infinite, so we don’t have to choose what we show,” said Wood-Lewis. Doomscrolling – mindlessly consuming a flood of negative news – is impossible here: Browsing through the posts takes just 10 minutes.
“Sometimes nothing much happens, just like in real life.”
Sounds lovely!
I live in Vermont. These rosy articles about Front Porch Forum come out every so often, and, as someone who writes about the intersection of tech and capitalism, they frustrate me.
First things first, it’s a moderated mailing list with some ads. I don’t know if it even makes sense to call it a social network, honestly. It’s a great service because moderated mailing lists are great. Here’s the problem:
To maintain this level of moderation, the founder does not want to expand Front Porch Forum beyond Vermont’s borders. He highlighted Nextdoor, another locally-focused social media platform that has expanded internationally, which has often been accused of inflaming tensions within communities due to its more relaxed moderation policy. However, Sabathier believes that local social media similar to Front Porch Forum could work elsewhere in the US, including in less progressive states – Vermont, the home of socialist Senator Bernie Sanders, was the state that cast the fewest votes for Trump in the November 2024 election. “It’s not so much a political platform as a tool for communities to organize themselves and be more cohesive,” said the researcher. “And that would be beneficial everywhere.”
Capitalism makes this world impossible. Front Porch Forum is a private business owned by a guy (technically, it’s a public benefit corporation, but those are toothless designations). Like so many beloved services, it’ll be great until it’s not. Eventually, cofounders, as lovely and well meaning as they might be, leave, move, die, whatever, and someone shitty will end up in control. Without a corporate restructuring into, say, a user cooperative, it is just as doomed as every other internet thing that we’ve all loved. These puff pieces always act like Vermont is a magical place and, frankly, it is, but not like this. We live under capitalism too. Sometimes, due to being a rural, freezing, mountainous backwater, we get short reprieves from the worst of it, but the problem with social media is systemic.
AMA I guess.
If someone were to visit Vermont is there anywhere you’d recommend they go?
I’d recommend renting a car (or driving here) and going from the south to the northeast kingdom (northeastern most part of the state and also the most rural part). It’s a small state so it won’t take that long. Burlington is a nice town, but imo totally fine to skip. Vermont’s real charm is its small towns and their breweries, farms, restaurants, etc.
If you like dairy, try the local milk and ice cream at different farms that make, process, and sell on site. Lots of small dairies here have milk from breeds of cows you’ve probably never tried (Jerseys mainly but other kinds too). It’s much tastier and creamier, and varies from farm to farm. Any brewery that has a bar is probably worth your time, and, when it comes to food/drink, we generally punch well above our weight for such a small place. Our maple syrup is, of course, legendary. Pro tip from someone who boils their own: The darker stuff is better, and the smaller the operation, the better the syrup, because bigger operations use fancy machines to extract water, whereas small ones rely entirely on boiling, so that syrup spends a lot more time cooking.
If you like hiking, you’ll drive by lots of good hiking in the process, but the better hiking is in the whites in New Hampshire or in the Adirondacks in NY, though those are worse places in general ;).
Happy to answer specific questions.
Eventually, cofounders, as lovely and well meaning as they might be, leave, move, die, whatever, and someone shitty will end up in control. Without a corporate restructuring into, say, a user cooperative, it is just as doomed as every other internet thing that we’ve all loved.
10/10. No notes.
Same thing is gonna happen to Valve and anything else people love. They’re lying to themselves if they think it won’t.
This is just the barest nature of the growth of institutions, they always eventually lose sight of what they were created to do. Not even through any fault of their own but there’s just no way to make sure that the new people running it are on the exact same page as the people who came before. No amount of legalese can prevent it from changing. As you said, it takes a complete restructuring where the invested parties have a voice in the future.
Yes, and worse, even if they are true to that vision, other bigger players will be offering huge piles of cash to buy the thing. There will always be a perpetual temptation in its current structure. Just look at another beloved Vermont brand, Ben and Jerry’s, now owned by unilever.
Yeah, it makes me think of Blizzard, now Activision Blizzard.
For decades Blizzard was a shining star, it had literally never made a bad game. They famously released games “when they’re done”, rather than just in time for Christmas. As a result, they had a perfect, spotless record of releasing only top quality, genre defining games that players nearly universally loved. But that streak ended with Diablo 3 in 2012, it was their first major release since Blizzard was purchased by Activision in 2008. For the first time their release was controversial and the game just wasn’t fun (in its current form).
I remember it actually made me very sad at the time, it felt like the end of an era. It also made me worry about the other PC gaming golden child, Valve.
I would have deleted this post after you’ve added much needed context but now I have to leave it up because of your AMA. 😤
No don’t! I’m glad you posted it! I do think that the story of FPF is worth telling because it actually is really useful and pleasant. The internet doesn’t inherently make us into assholes, but companies on the internet design their products to bring out the worst in us.
My comment was as serious as „😤” emoji can be, which is not very serious.
I’m too old to know what emojis mean.
🫡
First things first, it’s a moderated mailing list with some ads
This is what neighborhoods in my area do but without the ads. Around here there are distinct neighborhoods that have their own names but no official designation. People have, since before social media, set up mailing lists for each neighborhood moderated by one of the residents.
There’s occasional drama but mostly it’s people asking for tradespeople recommendations, curb alerts for furniture or photos of loose pets.
NextDoor-type services have tried to establish a presence but have mostly been ignored.
Maybe it’s the geography or the early adoption of e-mail lists but mailing lists work great around here.
The exact same stuff on FPF, especially the pets. I kind of hate how heartbreaking that part can be, honestly.
Anyway, that’s a wonderful tradition. I hope that you’re able to keep it going forever.
Understanding the problems you’ve outlined, can the positive functionality of this platform be replicated? I mean, we’re on the fediverse (?) here and it’s a decentralized platform but it’s not geography close-knit. I think having neighbors talk would be a net positive for society but nextdoor obviously seems like it replicates the worst of social media
Yes absolutely. It’s just a mailing list! There are bajillions of functioning and wonderful mailing lists all around the world, for neighborhood activities or otherwise. If you wanted to right now, you could make a mailing list and drop off a flyer with a QR code at all your neighbors’ houses. You’d have your own version of this set up in an afternoon, so long as you and other volunteers can find the time to moderate it. My advice to anyone who wants to start one that’s a little more formal, like this one, with paid moderators and staff, is to build your values into its structure. Do you want it to serve the community? Then the community should own it. Think about who you want to serve and make sure that it’s who the company will always be accountable to.
Thank you. Something I would absolutely consider
It’s a white state afterall :D
That’s nuts, I kept getting these weird emails to join and I legit thought it was spam. One of the tag lines was “see what your neighbors are saying about you.” Kinda creepy marketing imo.
I have never once wanted to know how much my neighbors think I’m a loser.
In China they have WeChat and nothing can beat it, absolutely nothing
WeChat is like the absolute dystopian nightmare. If you are for whatever reason excluded from this service you are basically fucked in Chinese Society.
WeChat is very much state sponsored social media over there right?
Out of curiosity, how does it work and what do you like about it?
Is it like Jodel?
