And they said we should just accept it on their credibility.

I had the occasion to look this up again, so I thought I should post it for more than the shitlib I got it for (so now it’s also for the three of you sorting by new at this hour)

  • evidence is when i make accusations. declassified evidence is when i make accusations on TV.

    jesus, it really was like 2003 and Ari Fleischer all over again. though the bush administration at least maintained “well there’s also top secret evidence to support [our justification for being in a war on the other side of the planet], but we can’t talk about it yet. when we do finally release it, you’ll all apologize to us.”

    liberals who swallow this unchewed shit deserve deep and public humiliation.

  • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    I firmly believe that the “false flag” that they were expecting was going to be Ukraine’s attack on Donetsk, which was flaring up with increased shelling that we saw getting seriously bad in the daily OSCE reports we were all watching at that time. They were expecting Ukraine to go in and they were getting ahead of it by spreading the idea that this would be a Russian false flag and pretense for Russian action.

    This didn’t happen because instead of waiting for Ukraine to do this action the Russians instead decided to get ahead of it entirely and just invade. They actually caught everyone with their pants down by doing so as well because everyone assumed Russia wanted a pretense before acting.

    • BelieveRevolt [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      It was very 👁 when I read on here that the reason Russian troops were able to get so close to Kiyv in the initial assault was that Ukrainian forces were in an offensive position around the Donbas. Don’t know if that’s true, of course.

  • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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    The U.S. claims to have information indicating that Russia is considering staging a “fabricated attack” by Ukrainian forces in order to justify an invasion of Ukraine

    Remember when Russia then proceeded to invade Ukraine with no justification?

    Oh right, that’s still happening.

      • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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        No argument. The invasion of Iraq was not justified in any way that I’m aware of.

        I’m half-convinced W read a report about Iranian uranium refining projects and got the countries mixed up. Either that or he was cleaning up daddy’s mess.

        This really is off-topic though, except in the broad sense of military invasions conducted with some thin propaganda as an excuse.

        • egg1918 [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          they lied about Cuba

          they lied about Korea

          they lied about Vietnam

          they lied about Afghanistan

          they lied about Iraq

          they lied about Syria

          they lied about China

          But this time they’re telling the truth!!!11!1!1!1!!

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      1 year ago

      Remember when Russia then proceeded to invade Ukraine with no justification?

      The proximate justification was several days of escalating artillery fire on Donbas. Whether you approve of that justification or not, it is not “no” justification and it was not a false flag. It also highlights how unnecessary it would be to stage a false flag because Ukraine had been doing that kind of thing for 8 years. Zelensky wasn’t about to call off Azov any time soon.

    • zephyreks [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Even Western outlets like Human Rights Watch acknowledged the situation in Ukraine:

      Flare-ups in hostilities, notably in March and May, led to civilian casualties. According to data by the United Nations human rights monitoring mission, in the first seven months of 2020, 18 civilians were killed and 89 injured by shelling, small arms weapons fire, mine-related incidents and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) strikes. Schools and educational facilities continued to be damaged by shelling, small arms and light weapons fire. Most of incidents occurred in the nongovernment-controlled areas.

      Between January and May 2019, attacks on schools on both sides of the contact line tripled compared with the same period in 2018. Throughout six years of conflict, 147 children were killed.

      Shelling across or near the contact line separating the two sides continued to damage civilian homes and infrastructure and to threaten civilian lives. Since 2014, 740 education facilities were damaged during the conflict, 16 from January to October 2018. Both sides carried out indiscriminate or deliberate attacks on schools and used them for military purposes.

      In late January and early February, all sides to the conflict engaged in massive shelling of populated areas, severely damaging essential civilian infrastructure and killing civilians. According to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Special Monitoring Mission (SMM), as of mid-November, at least 425 civilians were injured or killed in 2017, more than the previous year.

      Although the September ceasefire largely held, sporadic fighting continued. Both sides violated the laws of war. They committed indiscriminate attacks that injured and killed civilians, including through the use of cluster munitions. Government forces and Russia-backed rebels deployed within or near densely populated areas, endangering civilians and civilian objects, including schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings.

      Ukrainian government forces used cluster munitions in populated areas in Donetsk city in early October 2014, Human Rights Watch said today. The use of cluster munitions in populated areas violates the laws of war due to the indiscriminate nature of the weapon and may amount to war crimes.

      Don’t forget the blatant abuse of the ethnic Russians in the area by the Ukrainian government.

      In the first half of 2020, government policies linking pension eligibility with displaced persons’ status continued to discriminate against and create hardship for older people living in nongovernment-controlled areas by forcing them to regularly travel across the line of contact to access their pensions. In February, parliament failed to pass legislation that would have addressed this linkage on the premise that the state budget could not cover the cost of arrears owed to these pensioners.

      Ukraine authorities required people entering from nongovernment-controlled areas to install a smartphone app to monitor compliance with restrictions, even though many people do not own a smartphone. They also require people to self-isolate for 14 days, which is prohibitively expensive for older people living in these areas.

      Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) continued to deny the secret and prolonged detention of 18 civilians in its Kharkiv secret detention facility from 2014 to 2016. All 18 were unofficially freed by the end of 2016 and their detention was never acknowledged.

      The Ukrainian government continued restrictions on freedom of expression, freedom of information, and media freedom, seeking to justify them by citing the need to counter Russia’s military aggression in eastern Ukraine and anti-Ukraine propaganda. According to the Institute for Mass Information, a media freedom watchdog, as of October, 201 press freedom violations took place in 23 regions. These ranged from threats and intimidation to restricting journalists’ access to information.

      In August, SBU officials in the Dnipropetrovsk region unlawfully detained and tortured Daria Mastikasheva, later charging her with treason for allegedly working as a Russian agent. At time of writing, no one was found responsible for Mastikasheva’s ill-treatment.

      Kiev’s forces disappeared and arbitrarily detained 13 journalists, often accusing them of assisting insurgents. For example, in May, security services detained two Russian reporters and held them for a week in incommunicado detention for suspected assistance to insurgents. The reporters later alleged they were beaten and threatened with execution.

      This is all coming from Western, allegedly Anerican-biased sources. Not acknowledging the situation in Ukraine between 2014 and 2022 is silly.

  • FUCKRedditMods@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Is your implication that the US was wrong?

    As if it’s beyond russia to lie or use propaganda or invade Ukraine?

    Them calling this out was a good preemptive move either way. It makes Russia wonder how strong their source and evidence are and think twice about getting caught in another massive lie.

    The mere announcement of this may have saved Russian citizens’ lives from their own dictator’s ruthlessness… though it probably led to a few insiders falling out of windows.

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netOP
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      Is your implication that the US was wrong?

      No, my implication is that the US was lying

      As if it’s beyond russia to lie or use propaganda

      Lying is not a flat binary. What they are suggesting is quite elaborate. Did you watch the video? As the reporter says, it’s some Alex Jones shit.

      Them calling this out was a good preemptive move either way. It makes Russia wonder how strong their source and evidence are and think twice about getting caught in another massive lie.

      Like the pipeline, the prison, the dam, that one whole fucking town, or . . . wait, no, I must be thinking of something else

      The mere announcement of this may have saved Russian citizens’ lives from their own dictator’s ruthlessness… though it probably led to a few insiders falling out of windows.

      An excellent demonstration of why Ned “NED” Price was practicing an effective strategy, because even if it’s totally false the US can still take credit for stopping an atrocity that was never going to happen and rubes will eat it up proactively if they even remember it at all.

    • Thordros [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      I think the general consensus is that the US State Department is the government version of Jim Cramer. If you just believe the opposite of what they say, you’re usually correct.

      (With the usual caveats of critical reading, checking sources, blah blah. It’s a good jumping off point.)

    • Rod_Blagojevic [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      The civil war in the Donbas is Russian disinformation. The Cold War, the destruction of the USSR, and the subsequent pillaging by the NATO aligned west is Russian disinformation. I am American and I’ve never even spoken to a person from Russia or any part of the Soviet Union. I am not a rube easily manipulated by 3 minutes of television programming.

    • VILenin [he/him]@hexbear.netM
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      A good idea before you start smugly bloviating about the dastardly Russkies is to not immediately out yourself as a credulous rube that believes whatever the government tells you.