- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.world
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This may just be anecdotal but when I was that age I was borderline incel-ish due to how I’d been treated and mocked by girls in school just for existing and saw how my older sisters always got bare minimum punishments while I was given harsh ones for the smallest things.
It took awhile for me to rewire my brain to avoid all the negative thinking and get over it all. Some guys aren’t as lucky to be able to self reflect like that and realize their thinking is wrong.
I mean to be fair that’s when the hormones are at their ragiest, I would expect people to come to extreme conclusions too early
hehehehe… ^early conclusions^
I think its mostly about upbringing and peer groups. I had my first relationship and sex in my late twenties. Despite being a very frustrated horny teenager, I never understood the appeal of incel ideology
Right?
“hm, i’m very upset at the fact that i can’t get into a relationship with the opposite gender, surely the solution to this is vocally hating that opposite gender and being as toxic and unpleasant as i can manage”Like i get being fundamentally unhappy and angry, but surely the natural reaction to that is escaping into fantasy? Spend your days fantasizing about someone from the opposite gender actively loving the things others dislike, or that you’ll eventually turn out to secretly be a turboawesome vampire or whatever.
At what point does a person decide that hating the people they want to get into bed with makes sense??
Don’t blame the teenagers. most of us have no idea the media they’re beeing groom on by modern social media platforms.
average gen z boy after 1 (one) polite rejection:
“foids are all the same… i’m a forever doomed blackpillcel… andrew taint was right… billions must die”
if that’s the case they deserve to be involuntarily celibate.
Polite rejection? You forgot your teenage years.
I got polite rejection when i was a teen.
In fact, I haven’t had a single bad rejection.
Most kids are an angsty mess at that time but I still can’t really fathom thinking my hs crush or one of the other guys owed me a relationship it seems like a deep character flaw.
i feel like people confuse 2 similar but fundamentally different feelings: “I deserve a relationship/sex” and “i REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY want a relationship/sex and i don’t understand why everyone else seems to get it and i just get to eat shit, like holy shit can someone at least take pity on me? please?”
I’ve always felt that incels and their world view is simply natural teenage male angst that occurs before a teenage male is able to develop self reflection and consideration for others’ as people.
The difference is, if things go right, these teenagers mature, understand the world lives and exists outside of themselves, and comes to peace with failure in relationship attempts.
Incels, however, remain in this narcissistic, self absorbed entitlement and never graduate from that low level of cognitive ability. I feel their cognitive growth is stumped hard by depression, loneliness, and most importantly malicious and manipulative actors preying on these teens to control and scam them, like Andrew Tate, Trump, Jordon Peterson, Steven Crowder, Steve Bannon, Charlie “Red Gushers” Kirk, etc.
regular reminder that up to 1.7% of the population is intersex, and grouping people into “male” and “female” to explain societal stuff is very unhelpful.
- Signed: Nonbinary AMAB who has suffered quite a lot from being treated as “male”
I wouldn’t consider it natural at all. It’s often a direct result of pushing a problematic image of what “real men” are like onto young men. The type of men that incels look up to embody a version of masculinity that is increasingly repellent to women and doesn’t offer as much to society. We don’t need rough, tough coal miners and manufacturers because those jobs are being automated away, we need service and healthcare workers with empathy and other qualities that people have arbitrarily decided aren’t masculine. Women are filling those jobs because they’re good at them and men aren’t nearly as likely to seek them out. And women having the means to provide for themselves means they can choose partners that actually respect them rather than having to settle for a “provider” whose only quality is financial contributions.
So young men internalize a version of masculinity that women don’t want or need and society rewards less and less, leading to them being isolated and feel they have less value. Young men + isolation + low self worth is the ultimate recipe for getting roped up into extremist views, hence why there’s so much overlap between incels and right wing extremist groups.
I think a lot of people do manage to recognize that their understanding of masculinity is flawed and do the work to figure out a healthier way to interpret their role in life/society, but the whole problem could be avoided entirely if they had a healthier view of masculinity from the get-go. I definitely don’t think it’s a problem that’s naturally occurring in men and could theoretically be improved on a large scale, but I dunno how we right the ship.
You want a counterpoint that always gets hate?
People need to learn to roll their eyes and let boys be boys TO A HEALTHY DEGREE (thats in bold for a reason) Teenage boys are constantly hearing “Violent movies arent good, violent videogames arent good, the way you interact with your friends is toxic, fast cars and loud motorbikes are for people with small dicks, contact sports are for meatheads, combat sports are downright evil, MASCULINITY IS TOXIC!!!”
You know who isnt telling them that everything they like, everything that gets their blood pumping and everything they identify as something important about them is somehow “wrong” Andrew Fucking Tate and everyone like him.
… who’s saying contact/combat sports are bad?
If I met a guy who plays sports I’d be thrilled. They’re a great way to stay healthy and socialize. (Except golf - fuck golf)
It probably doesn’t help that sex and being in a heteronormal relationship is seen as cool and, by extension, not having those makes you seem like a loser. It’d probably be better if those things were seen as a nice-to-have on an individual basis rather than a societal expectation.
That will never happen, before incel became the favorite insult online, virgin was that word.
I mean, stuff happened in college but it didn’t reach the low level of effort my lazy ass is willing to put in until my 30s. Well, unless you’re counting regularly going to the gym as effort.
17 is frustrating for guys because it is difficult, socially, at that age and the hormones are off the charts. But yeah, if you GO IN hating women you’re going to have a bad time.
To be fair you are called an incel if you simply look conventionally unattractive and don’t have many friends at this point.
“Oh you are not as socially confident due to autism, adhd, or just overall don’t like talking to people? We are gonna assume you post about raping women in your spare time.”
Not really the right place to ask this, but I feel like I shouldn’t post in communities meant to be exclusive safe spaces.
What does the term “femcel” imply? Is it female incel? Because it would be absolutely crazy to voluntarily identify with the incels after all the trash sane people have talked about them over the years.
It could definitely imply female incel, but in places like !femcelmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone it’s fairly ironic. In that case, it’s more about being a loser than a sexist asshole.
Thanks! I was hoping it was ironic. I used to think r/thedonald was ironic when it started, it’s hard to tell sometimes.
I think it actually was. A lot of the QAnon stuff was viewed as ironic once upon a time as well
