As vegans, we need B-12 supplementation.
The linked study shows excess B-12 causes excess death in all demographics. Most supplements out there are way more than your RDA often like 200x or more. Despite the claims that because it is water soluble, it it non-toxic, it still is known to cause toxicity. It is stored in your liver for years and high circulating blood levels can cause cobalamin toxicity.
Just like years ago we found out about B9 (as folic acid) toxicity and birth defects, then B6 toxicity, which is now making news and finally being regulated. These cause the same symptoms at B12 toxicity, of which we are beginning to see more studies. Even those all these B vitamins are are water-soluble and we were told not to worry, they can all cause toxicity.
Here is another study showing excess B6 and/or B12 leads to increase incidence of hip fracture in post-menopausal women: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31074816/.
What I wish someone would have told me: While taking a B12 supplement, If you are experiencing excessive flushing, restlessness, muscle spasms and tingling in the hands in the feet (that is neuropathy and nerve damage is irreversible), consider the possibility of your B12 intake causing toxicity, especially if you take high doses regularly. Some bodies are more prone to it than others.
Stay healthy friends. <3
This is a vegan thread but remember even non-vegans:
nergy drinks contain high levels of Vitamin B12, often ranging from 100% up to over 8,000% of the Daily Value (DV). Common 8-12 oz cans typically provide between 6 mcg (250% DV) and 167 mcg (10,000% DV), while concentrated 2-oz shots, like 5-Hour Energy, can contain 500 mcg (8,333% DV) of cyanocobalamin.
Sorry for the shitty copy paste
Its absorption drops significantly past a certain point, hence the really high dosages needed to get anything at all. The only reliable measure if this study is to be believed is how much is actually in your blood.
Probably correct, yeah, but also, the daily value here is daily intake value, not daily required amount for your body. At least I assume so.
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It just occurred to me, the link is just to an abstract of the study, not enough for readers to make any changes. Where is the whole study? One should never post abstracts/summaries of science that communicates people need to make changes, DANGEROUS.
A single person case study:
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I’m not properly vegan, I drink “kefir” (fermented milk product), but it’s not a source of B12.
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I put flavour yeast / nutritional yeast on many foods, typically a large spoonful per day, sometimes two.
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Nutritional yeast naturally contains other B-group vitamins, B12 has been artificially added from bacterial sources.
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My preferred product (products vary) contains 2.2 micrograms of B12 per 5 grams, which is claimed to be 88% of the recommended daily amount. If I consume 1.5 spoonfuls per day, I’m consuming approximately 1.5 RDA per day.
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According to local sources, B12 levels in blood are recommended to be within 156 - 672 picomoles per liter. My samples have yielded values like 230, 190, 255, 208, etc.
Conclusion: in my case, eating 1.5 x RDA per day is safe and arguably less than optimal, I should eat a bit more. But definitely don’t eat 200 x RDA of flavour yeast, that would be asking for trouble (disclaimer: I studied biology but didn’t become a biologist).
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I guess this helps some people out there, but I got to wonder in A Vegan thread? What Vegans are going to take too many B12 supplements?
I guess it might be possible, if I consider both of my cheating Vegan roommate & my cheating Vegan mother are always worried about me & her, my mother, getting enough protein, while eating Vegan (or I should say just I really eating Vegan & she is cheating Vegan). Such intelligent woman yet she falls for non-Vegan propaganda about Vegan is hard to get enough protein, while protein is everywhere in The 1st World nations. It is actually, hard to not get too much protein,
What Vegans are going to take too many B12 supplements?
Well, I guess me. I spent some time researching about B12 years ago and since then I take 1000 mg B12 daily which equates to 40000% of the daily dose ( https://www.sunday.de/b12-mh3a-formel-bioaktiv-1000ug.html ).
Based on what I read back then there seemed to be no upper limit because - exactly as OP mentioned - the rest will be just flushed out automatically. Also my doctor (not specialized on veganism) confirmed that and my blood levels are fine.
For me it’s the first time that I read about B12 toxicity.
You mean μg not mg. That would be really much. 😅
I take Vitamaze Vitamin B12 1.000 μg. The last year I took one to three pills every week and slided a bit into the direction of a deficit. After talking with my general practitioner (also not specialized), I am back to 1.00 μg per day.
Yes, correct. But still that’s 40000% as per the label on the pills. Thus, if you take 100, it should be better, but still 4000%. So far, I always read that the body usually doesn’t absorb B12 efficiently and that taking a higher dose is the best approach to make sure to cover your needs. Now after this study, what would be the appropriate dose? Really going down to 100% would mean 2.5 ug per day, not 100 or even 1000.
So like, after reading your reply & thinking of our practices, what my household believes about Vitamin C, which we take a 1000 MG pill per day, a lot more when preventing from getting sick. The same thing that we eat a lot of foods that have Vitamin C in them.
The B12 & B6 Vitamins (those are the only three-vitamins I take*, are also B12 at 1-1000 mg & B6 at 1-100 mg sized, but I am male. My mother is the one that had I & my brother taking vitamins since old enough to.*- I prefer not to take any, debatable what Vitamins Vegans really need- B12 & B6, I eat 3-Raw salads & some other Raw vegetables per week, & long ago heard that secretly one eats tiny bugs’ parts that are mixed in & never noticed. But then again raw stuff is washed these days,
Some other types of supplements also include B vitamins, sometimes without mentioning it on the label. Taking those in addition to regular B12 supplements can cause toxicity issues.
plus like half of vegan foods are fortified with b12
That is a good point, I had not thought of. I know the same is true with additives in foods, so maybe, the same thing could happen by eating foods.
Gotcha love Capitalist regulations, Hope everyone got I was being scarcastic.
I guess it is good that I only take 3-vitamins, every morning.
Many moons ago, like 2010, after being vegan for a few years I got my blood tested and found b-12 deficiency (I wasn’t consuming flax or supplements.)
I hit the B vitamins pretty hard :-/ Thankfully I’ve since relaxed. Hope I don’t keel over
That is right, I eat a little of Flax Seeds powder on everything.
I live with a roommate who life will be ending in years from now, so gets sick easily, every Jan.’s cold weather, he gets sick & thus I do too. One-year, even after COVID-19 & it’s Variants epidemic was finished he got COVID-19 & it’s Variants, for the fourth time! I was so scared to not catch COVID-19 & it’s Variants in my chest, from him, I was still masking & gloving, always did washing my hands a lot, roommate has terrible hygiene. When I started feeling like fighting something, I started eating a super amount of Tutmeric. So much so that I went to a free clinic, I was pooping blood & had DuckDuckGoed it & found-out too much is bad for intestins (SP?), doctor said is possible, but needed money to test for it, I could not afford it so never did it. Did go back to only dust everything Ineat with Turmeric powder.
My vitamin B supplements (100mg B12 per pill, I try to take about 1 a day) look very similar to an immune supplement my doctor recommends for preventing UTIs. Problem is that the dose of that latter one is 3-4 pills, 3 times a day. I have definitely accidentally grabbed the wrong package and taken a massive dose of the B12 many times
B12 deficiency is hardly a vegan issue, considering vegans constitute less than 10% from country to country, while the percentage of people deficient in B12 is way above that, up to 40% in the West and more in the developing world. If the study is to be believed though, keeping it below 400 pg/mL in the blood ensures there’s no increased risk of mortality.
Not so sure, the study excluded people that took b12 supplements
…excluding those who were missing values of vitamin B12 plasma concentrations or used vitamin B12 supplementation.
So doesn’t say anything about supplements? Only about blood concentration.
